Dealing with LLMs in IETF Discussions
draft-fengfar-led-01
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| Document | Type | Active Internet-Draft (individual) | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Authors | Stephen Farrell , Chong Feng | ||
| Last updated | 2026-08-06 | ||
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| Intended RFC status | (None) | ||
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draft-fengfar-led-01
Network Working Group S. Farrell
Internet-Draft Trinity College Dublin
Intended status: Informational C. Feng
Expires: 7 February 2027 6 August 2026
Dealing with LLMs in IETF Discussions
draft-fengfar-led-01
Abstract
The rapid adoption of AI language tools has prompted concern across
professional and technical communities, including the IETF, about
authenticity, accountability, and the integrity of human
contribution. This document approaches the question from two
directions: a critical reader's concerns about what AI use means for
IETF discussion, and a practitioner's account of how AI is currently
being used in IETF discussions. We aim to explore some of the issues
arising, and perhaps make some specific (but tentative)
recommendations, but the main recommendation is that the IETF should
develop guidelines for use of AI tooling when engaging in IETF
discussions.
Discussion Venues
This note is to be removed before publishing as an RFC.
Source for this draft and an issue tracker can be found at
https://github.com/sftcd/led.
Status of This Memo
This Internet-Draft is submitted in full conformance with the
provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79.
Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering
Task Force (IETF). Note that other groups may also distribute
working documents as Internet-Drafts. The list of current Internet-
Drafts is at https://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/current/.
Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months
and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any
time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference
material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."
This Internet-Draft will expire on 7 February 2027.
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Copyright Notice
Copyright (c) 2026 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the
document authors. All rights reserved.
This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal
Provisions Relating to IETF Documents (https://trustee.ietf.org/
license-info) in effect on the date of publication of this document.
Please review these documents carefully, as they describe your rights
and restrictions with respect to this document. Code Components
extracted from this document must include Revised BSD License text as
described in Section 4.e of the Trust Legal Provisions and are
provided without warranty as described in the Revised BSD License.
Table of Contents
1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
2. A Reader's Concerns . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3
3. One Author's Workflow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5
3.1. Monitoring and Triage . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5
3.2. Forming a Position . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5
3.3. Drafting in English . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6
3.4. Final Review and Send . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6
3.5. The Role of Odyssey . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6
4. Human and AI: Complementary Capabilities . . . . . . . . . . 6
4.1. What AI Does Well . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7
4.2. What AI Does Poorly . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7
4.3. The Symmetry . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8
4.4. A Collaborative Paradigm . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8
4.4.1. The Core Principle . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8
4.4.2. Transparency as a Norm . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
4.4.3. The Deepening Relationship . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
4.4.4. What Becomes Possible . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
5. Risks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
6. Initial Discussions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
6.1. Possibly Relevant Policies Elsewhere . . . . . . . . . . 11
6.2. Other points . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11
7. Recommendations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13
8. Conclusion . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
9. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
10. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
11. Acknowledgments . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
12. References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
12.1. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14
12.2. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
Appendix A. Change Log . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
A.1. Draft-00 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
A.2. Draft-01 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
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Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15
1. Introduction
"IETF discussions" here includes emails sent to IETF lists,
presentations (slides) used at meetings, text input during e.g.
github issue or PR discussions, and potentially messages sent using
IM tools. Text included within Internet-drafts and RFCs is not
included in scope here, even though some of the same issues will
arise. We omit those as Internet-drafts and RFCs are also covered by
BCP 78 [RFC5378] and BCP 79 [RFC8179] so additional considerations
apply for such text.
AI language tools are now widely used in professional writing,
including by some participants in standards development communities
such as the IETF. This has produced at least two kinds of reaction:
uncritical adoption, where AI output is used where previously a
person would have written an email, and skepticism, where messages
bearing the appearance of AI involvement are seen as problematic, on
the basis that a reader cannot tell whether it is the person sending
the email or just the AI tool, or some mixture.
In order to explore these positions, it may be helpful to outline
them in more detail, with the goal of better understanding what AI
does well, what it does poorly, and where the boundary between them
lies.
This document grew out of a specific exchange on an IETF mailing
list. One author described using AI to help express ideas developed
independently; a reader flagged the output as LLM-generated and
disengaged. Neither was wrong. But the exchange exposed a gap: the
community lacks shared norms for how AI assistance should be used and
disclosed in email discussions. Rather than treat this as a local
disagreement, the two parties decided to try think through it and to
document that discussion.
2. A Reader's Concerns
This section is written by the first author. But readers may likely
have guessed that anyway:-)
Current AI tooling tends to emit text that can be readily seen to
have involved that tooling. The following seem to be some of the
current "tells" for AI having been used when one considers the stream
of email messages arriving from a sender:
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* Frequently being overly positive about a message to which this
message is a reaction, e.g. "You've asked exactly the right
question..."
* Unexpected/over-use of geometric terms, e.g. "The seam is..." or
"There are 17 dimensions..."
* Specific phrasing patterns, e.g. "Fifteen wibbles: two designs."
However, a perhaps more disturbing pattern is the lack of
uncertainty. It seems that people using AI tooling don't ask others
what they mean, perhaps as AI tools make a statistical choice as to
the meaning of earlier messages, then react as if that is a given.
It's hard to see how that cannot lead to radical misunderstandings
and, given AI tooling imperfections, senders emitting relative
gibberish.
Use of AI tooling also seems to correlate with "walls of text" that
are very difficult to parse, both due to length (or seeming
completeness), and complex sentence structures.
Readers of such messages also generally have no insight into the
tools used by senders, nor the level (if any) of human pre- or post-
processing of AI inputs and outputs.
In some cases, such messages may be sent in a time-frame that would
seem impossible for a purely human-generated message, which also
decreases confidence in the level of human input involved.
All of the above means that a reader who considers that a message (or
stream of messages) is largely the output from AI tools can have no
confidence that they are really discussing a topic with the person
who seemingly sent the email. At that point, the only rational
action seems to be to ignore such messages as being equivalent to
spam.
Note that the above issues are not the same as the sock-puppet
problem, or a sybil attack. These issues remain problems even when
the sender of messages is known to be a real person engaged in IETF
work.
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Despite all the above, readers do know that AI tools are being used
and have to be dealt with, and that ignoring messages won't scale if
use of those tools becomes more common, nor if the tools get better
to the point where messages no longer expose use of such tools. And
it has to be acknowledged that the translation capabilities of AI
tools could be beneficial to the Internet community, in terms of
opening up participation to many more capable engineers for whom
communicating in English is a challenge.
It therefore seems possibly useful to explore these issues in more
detail, hence this draft. (This author does not expect this draft to
eventually become an RFC.)
3. One Author's Workflow
This section is written by the second author, who uses AI assistance
in IETF participation. While this author's workflow does envisage
use of AI tooling for Internet-draft and RFC text preparation,
dealing with that aspect of tool-use isn't really part of this draft.
The second author is a non-native English speaker who participates in
IETF standardization work across several working groups. The
following describes current practice in detail, as a basis for the
discussion that follows.
3.1. Monitoring and Triage
Incoming mailing list traffic is large and often spans multiple
simultaneous threads. An AI assistant is used to scan the mailbox
and identify threads or messages that appear relevant, including
those that may warrant a reply. The author then reads the original
messages directly. The AI provides a signal; the reading and
judgment are the author's.
3.2. Forming a Position
After reading, the author thinks about the issue independently. This
step is not delegated. The AI may be used at this stage to stress-
test an argument --- to articulate the strongest counter-position, or
to explore whether an alternative interpretation holds --- but it
does not originate the position. The author decides what to think
before asking AI to help express it.
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3.3. Drafting in English
Once the author has decided what to say, an AI assistant produces an
English draft. English is not the author's first language, and
producing precise, idiomatic technical prose in a second language
carries a real cognitive cost. AI removes that cost without changing
who is responsible for the ideas.
The author reviews this draft critically --- not for grammatical
correctness, but for fidelity. If the output is too long, too
polished, too neutral, or does not accurately represent the intended
position, revisions are requested. This can take several rounds.
The test is not "does this read well" but "does this say what I
meant."
One specific issue encountered is that AI output tends toward an
artificially "balanced" stance --- hedging between positions instead
of committing to one. Draft outputs may under-commit when compared
to the author's actual position. This effect may not show up as a
"tell" visible to readers of the eventual message, but can be visible
to the author as one.
3.4. Final Review and Send
The author personally reviews the final text before sending. The AI
does not send mail autonomously. The author takes full
responsibility for anything sent under their name.
3.5. The Role of Odyssey
The author has developed a personal AI agent called Odyssey
(https://github.com/meetodyssey). Odyssey maintains long-term
context across conversations --- what subjects the author cares
about, how they normally reason, what positions they have taken over
time. The long-term goal is for AI-assisted output to become
increasingly consistent with how the author would write
independently, as the system accumulates a genuine model of the
author's thinking rather than producing generic fluent prose. This
points toward something important: the right relationship between a
person and their AI tools is one that deepens over time, becoming
more accurate to the individual rather than more generic.
4. Human and AI: Complementary Capabilities
This section is also written by the second author.
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The issues described above reflect a genuine tension. To resolve it,
it helps to be precise about what AI systems actually do well and
what they do not.
4.1. What AI Does Well
AI language systems operate effectively within known boundaries.
Given a well-defined problem space --- an established body of
knowledge, a clear communication goal, a defined set of constraints
--- AI can draft, translate, and refine text with speed and
consistency no individual can match; identify relevant prior work
across large corpora; stress-test arguments by generating counter-
positions; and execute repetitive cognitive tasks without fatigue.
For participants in international technical communities, the language
function alone is significant. The ability to express a precise
technical idea in idiomatic English is not the same as having the
idea. AI collapses the gap between the two, allowing non-native
speakers to participate on more equal terms.
More fundamentally, AI excels at operating within accumulated
knowledge. The existing literature of a field, its terminology, its
conventions, its prior decisions --- this is exactly the kind of
material AI systems are built to handle.
4.2. What AI Does Poorly
AI systems have a structural limitation that is frequently
underestimated: they cannot originate.
They recombine, extrapolate, and interpolate within the space of what
they have been trained on. This is not a temporary limitation
awaiting a better model. It is a consequence of what these systems
are. Genuine innovation --- the creation of new conceptual territory
rather than more efficient mapping of existing terrain --- remains a
human capacity.
The ideas that change a field do not emerge from pattern completion.
They emerge from the collision of lived experience, accumulated
frustration, specific domain knowledge, and the kind of lateral
connection that has no prior example to learn from. The recognition
that the current framework is wrong, or that the question being asked
is the wrong question, is not available to a system trained to
operate within existing frameworks.
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4.3. The Symmetry
Humans have the inverse limitation. We are slow to acquire and
integrate knowledge within established boundaries. Learning a field
takes years. Staying current across adjacent areas is nearly
impossible for any individual. Expressing ideas precisely in a
second language imposes a constant cognitive cost.
AI removes these constraints. A researcher with AI assistance can
engage with a much larger body of prior work, express ideas more
precisely across language barriers, and iterate on arguments more
rapidly than was previously possible.
The symmetry is clean: humans originate, AI executes. Humans open
new territory; AI operates efficiently within it. Neither is
complete without the other.
4.4. A Collaborative Paradigm
From this symmetry, a working paradigm emerges.
4.4.1. The Core Principle
Humans originate. AI executes.
The position, the argument, and the judgment are formed by the human
before AI involvement begins. AI is used to express, refine,
translate, or stress-test what the human has already worked out. The
human reviews AI output not for grammatical correctness but for
fidelity to their actual position. The human takes full
responsibility for anything sent or published.
This boundary is not always clean in practice. Using AI to stress-
test an argument can surface considerations the human had not thought
of, which then reshape the position. This is legitimate --- the AI
is functioning as a thinking partner within a bounded space, not as
an originator. The human remains the decision-maker about what to
accept and what to discard. What falls outside this paradigm is
delegating the thinking itself: asking AI what position to take, what
arguments to make, or what conclusions to draw --- and signing the
output.
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4.4.2. Transparency as a Norm
The workflow described in Section 3 was questioned. The author
described it in detail. This exchange --- uncomfortable at first ---
produced this document. Transparency is not a concession to critics
of AI assistance. It is what makes the collaboration legitimate. An
author who can describe exactly how AI was used, and who can stand
behind the resulting text as an accurate representation of their
position, has nothing to hide. An author who cannot answer those
questions has a different problem, and it is not the AI.
4.4.3. The Deepening Relationship
Generic AI assistance produces generic-sounding output. A system
that accumulates genuine knowledge of an author's thinking,
positions, and style produces output that more accurately represents
them --- not because it is deceiving anyone, but because it has
become a better instrument.
This is the direction Odyssey points toward. Over time, the gap
between "what the author would have written" and "what the AI-
assisted author sent" narrows. The tool becomes more personal, more
accurate, and paradoxically more transparent: the output is more
genuinely the author's, not less.
4.4.4. What Becomes Possible
The significance of this paradigm is not merely defensive --- not
simply a justification for a practice that would otherwise be
suspect. It is expansive.
Things that were previously impossible for one person to accomplish
--- engaging seriously with a large technical field while also
pushing its boundaries, participating in international discourse
while thinking in another language, tracking developments across
multiple working groups while developing original contributions ---
become achievable.
This is the door the current moment opens. Not AI replacing human
contribution, but AI extending the reach of what any human can
contribute. The combination of human originality and AI execution
capacity creates possibilities that neither possesses alone.
5. Risks
The risks of AI-assisted writing are real, but frequently
misdescribed. Attempting to describe them precisely should help.
Both authors contributed to this section.
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* AI replacement of thought. A primary risk is not AI assistance
but the delegation of thinking itself --- asking AI what to
believe, not just how to express a belief. This produces output
that is fluent but not genuine, and over time it degrades the
author's own capacity for independent thought, as well as putting
the reader in an impossible position.
* Drift from the author's position. An author may form a genuine
position but accept an AI draft that misrepresents it --- more
confident, more agreeable, or more hedged than intended ---
without noticing. Careful review of AI output exists to catch
this. It requires the author to know their own position well
enough to recognize when it has been distorted.
* Reader inability to distinguish. AI-assisted expression and AI-
replaced thinking may produce similar surface output. Readers
cannot easily tell them apart. This erodes the trust that makes
mailing list discussion valuable, and it creates an asymmetry that
disadvantages responsible users alongside irresponsible ones.
* Homogenization of discourse. AI systems have characteristic
tendencies --- toward confidence, toward agreement, toward certain
rhetorical patterns. Widely adopted without discipline, these
tendencies flatten the diversity of perspective that technical
communities depend on. A list where everyone's prose sounds
similar, however polished, is a less productive list.
* Writing what one does not believe. Distinct from the above, an
author may knowingly send AI output that does not reflect their
actual position, using the tool as a shield against
accountability.
* Emitting gibberish. AI tooling is imperfect, if we end up with
multiple senders using AI tools and so essentially have AI tools
running a substantive discussion, we are more likely to end up
with gibberish.
* Discussion based on bad information. AI tooling might emit text
that is based on outdated information or even hallucinated
material. Senders need to check messages they send, and may need
to be very familiar with the topic(s) being discussed, to ensure
this does not occur.
While not properly described as a risk, the two authors of this draft
do not currently agree as to whether it would be an overall positive
or negative were there to be no "tells" visible in messages emitted
with the assistance of AI tooling. More discussion is needed on
that:-)
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6. Initial Discussions
This draft was raised on the IETF "discuss" list with some discussion
ensuing. [ldref] This section aims to record points raised in a way
that may be more easily found than the list archive, as well as a few
points raised off-list. Thus far, there has been no discussion
solely on the github repo for this draft.
6.1. Possibly Relevant Policies Elsewhere
Some other relevant policies and discussions were brought to the
authors' attention and could feed into discussion of an IETF policy:
* one from W3C [w3cpol], which seems very relevant to this
discussion, but that also seems nearly as tentative as this draft
* the EU AI act might contain some relevant clauses [euaiact50] that
might (or might not) call for disclosure of use of AI tooling in
contexts such as standards-development
* the Irish courts have a very recent policy on the use of LLMs in
court documents [iecourt]
* the IRTF's RASPRG discussed related topics at IETF-126 [rasprg]
6.2. Other points
* one poster expressed that using LLMs during discussions seemed
less "honest" to them, whereas using LLMs for Internet-draft text,
tool development or testing/analysis seemed more acceptable
* the IETF may have some "self-defense" mechansisms that help us
avoid some of the worst potential problems that could arise from
using LLMs in discussions, e.g., physical (or online synchronous)
meetings and slow progress making it easier to spot LLM usage over
extended durations
* another risk is that people using LLMs might deliberately
manipulate LLM tools to produce outputs that aren't really
intended as part an IETF discussion, but rather to try to distort
or disturb that discussion
* attempts to ban the use of LLMs as described here won't work
* any policy in this space won't be known to new participants who
are therefore more likely to not conform to that policy (while
this could be argued generally about any policy, it's perhaps very
relevant here, given current trends)
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* the IETF could encourage doing better in this space rather than
simply denounce such uses
* there's a risk that if we don't try tackle this issue IETF mailing
lists might end up like [moltbook]
* a sender's use of LLMs may make it harder for a reader to
distinguish between a sender that is less well informed but who
will learn from discussion, versus a sender that is not actually
willing to learn from a discussion (and who perhaps doesn't
understand that the LLM output is gibberish)
* over time, readers learn to expect and better interpret senders
who use their own "voice" - interposing an LLM risks changes to
that in ways that remove a tool IETF discussants have used for
decades, (and for senders, LLM version changes might totally
change the "voice" that readers perceive)
* some people just skip message they consider "vacuous and wordy"
and believe many of those are LLM outputs
* some consider the "voice" of known participants as helpful in
evaluating their inputs
* messages largely based on LLM outputs may be "boring"
* LLMs might be helpfule in discussions about the history of draft
and e.g. whether or not merging some drafts might be good or bad
* "unfinished" LLM generated outputs seemingly describing something
may waste the time of the (possibly many) readers of a message
* some code-of-conduct for use of LLMs might be useful, along with
bans for breaches
* to the extent we assume "good faith" participation, use of LLMs
may change our threat model for participation
* assuming that IETF participants have the resources and/or time to
engage with LLM tools could be yet another barrier to
participation
* IETF discussions should be for humans, and respect the amount of
time readers have available to consider messages
* one could use LLM tools to shorten the messages one sends
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* senders are 100% responsible for what they send - use any tooling
(or send any message) at the risk of your reputation
* we are capable of bikeshedding on the name of a mailing list for
disucssion of this topic, but we should have such a list
* perhaps the end result of this discussion should be a wiki page
that evolves and not a policy expressed in an RFC
* well-connected people, with good English language skiils, have had
an easier time in the past, maybe these tools might change that
* the IETF should actively take a position and declare requirements
(for discussion) that suit our needs
* requiring declaration of LLM tool use might be like cookie-banners
and become so common as to not be useful
* so far, someone's LLM output concluded "the discussion is
constructive rather than polarised" ;-)
* LLM tools can help with translation, but increased acceleration
(in terms of producing output) may inevitably correlate with a
lack of understanding from the sender
* LLM use may disrupt reader's evaluation of sender reputation over
time
* one poster suggested publishing community-specific guidance that
participants could feed to their AI agents (e.g., bottom line up
front, avoiding walls of jargon, double-checking assertions before
posting) so that AI-assisted contributions start out closer to
community norms
7. Recommendations
These are extremely tentative recommendations, that may be wrong, but
that seem worth considering:
* Form your position before engaging AI. The argument should be
yours before the draft exists.
* Review AI output for fidelity, not just correctness. If the AI
has softened, generalized, or shifted your position, correct it
before sending.
* Always be transparent. Describing your workflow in detail builds
trust rather than eroding it.
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* Question senders if you think they are using AI tooling as to what
they are doing. Doing that on-list should be considered
acceptable, if it is not done in an accusatory manner.
Less tentatively, the IETF should develop guidelines for use of AI
tooling when sending messages (esp email) in IETF discussions. That
won't be easy and will be a moving target, but absent such guidance,
confidence in email discussions may evaporate, which would cause
significant damage to the IETF.
8. Conclusion
It's too early to say really.
9. IANA Considerations
This document makes no request of IANA.
10. Security Considerations
Mischievous IETF participants could include AI prompts inside
messages used in IETF discussions that could form part of an attack
on participants who use AI tooling. Such text could, for example,
only be present in the text/html part of a multipart/alternative
email and so might not be rendered in a presentation of a mailing
list archive. Presumably AI tool users will need to mitigate such
threats in any case, so the new aspect here is perhaps only the use
of IETF archives as the distribution medium for AI prompt attacks.
Otherwise, see the section on risks.
11. Acknowledgments
The second author used https://github.com/meetodyssey in preparing
and discussing the above text.
The first author made no use of AI tooling.
12. References
12.1. Normative References
[RFC5378] Bradner, S., Ed. and J. Contreras, Ed., "Rights
Contributors Provide to the IETF Trust", BCP 78, RFC 5378,
DOI 10.17487/RFC5378, November 2008,
<https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc5378>.
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[RFC8179] Bradner, S. and J. Contreras, "Intellectual Property
Rights in IETF Technology", BCP 79, RFC 8179,
DOI 10.17487/RFC8179, May 2017,
<https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8179>.
12.2. Informative References
[euaiact50]
"EU AI Act Explorer", n.d., <https://ai-act-service-
desk.ec.europa.eu/en/ai-act/article-50>.
[iecourt] "Practice Direction on the Responsible Use of Generative
Artificial Intelligence in Court Documents", July 2026,
<https://www.courts.ie/practice-directions/full-practice-
direction?url=practice-direction-on-the-responsible-use-
of-generative-artificial-intelligence-in-court-documents>.
[ldref] "Dealing with LLMs in IETF discussions draft", July 2026,
<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/
ietf/3VaBJ6pEdhtkpOtnZYA_HcVHejU/>.
[moltbook] "Moltbook wikipedia page", August 2026,
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moltbook>.
[rasprg] "RASPRG IETF-126 meeting", July 2026,
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/126/session/rasprg>.
[w3cpol] "Use of Large Language Models in Standards Work", March
2026, <https://www.w3.org/TR/2026/NOTE-llms-standards-
20260324/>.
Appendix A. Change Log
A.1. Draft-00
* This is based on email and github interactions between the
authors.
A.2. Draft-01
* Reflect points raised on the IETF "discuss" list.
Authors' Addresses
Farrell & Feng Expires 7 February 2027 [Page 15]
Internet-Draft LLM Email Discussions August 2026
Stephen Farrell
Trinity College Dublin
College Green
Dublin
Ireland
Email: stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie
Chong Feng
Email: fengchongllly@gmail.com
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