Ballot for draft-ietf-pals-ple
Discuss
Yes
No Objection
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Summary: Has 3 DISCUSSes. Needs 2 more YES or NO OBJECTION positions to pass.
Thank you for the work on this document. Please let me know if the working group has already had a discussion on the following references, it is entirely possible that this was discussed and agreed upon, in which case thank you for letting me know and pointing me to the discussion. I believe the following references should be normative instead of informative. - RFC 3985 (which is informational, so if we agree the IESG also has to approve the downref that hasn't been called out in IETF Last Call) - RFC 3550
This is non-blocking because I am not sure about the resolution. Hopefully discussion with the authors and the responsible AD will help. I was puzzled to see the following paragraph in Section 7.2.2: > The recovered clock MUST comply with the jitter and wander requirements applicable to the type of attachment circuit, specified in: > > [G.825] and [G.823] for SDH > > [GR253] for SONET > > [G.8261] for synchronous Ethernet > > [G.8251] for OTN and at the same time all of these references are informative. I understand that depending on which of these you are considering, the others might be unnecessary to read, however with the requirement text I still feel those would have made more sense as normative references. Note that a similar comment could be made for the following text in Section 3.2, motivating the need for [G.8262] and [G.8261.1] being normative: > While using external timing inputs (aka BITS [ATIS-0900105.09.2013]) or synchronous Ethernet as defined in [G.8261] the characteristics and limits defined in [G.8262] have to be considered. > > While relying on precision time protocol (PTP) as defined in [G.8265.1], the network limits defined in [G.8261.1] have to be considered.
Normative language is specified in the document which appears to come from informative references. — Section 4.2.1, When the CE-bound IWF is in PLOS state or when PLE packets are received with the L-bit being set, the CE-bound NSP function MAY disable its transmitter as no appropriate maintenance signal was defined for 1000BASE-X by IEEE. [IEEE802.3] needs to be a normative reference. — Section 4.2.2 The CE-bound NSP function MUST perform * PCS code sync * descrambling Where are the details of this mandatory behavior specified? Is it [IEEE802.3]? If so, then please cite it normatively. Is it possible to provide section numbers? — Section 4.2.3 To gain access to the scrambled 64B/66B code stream the PSN-bound NSP further MUST perform … The CE-bound NSP function MUST perform … Same comments as noted above for Section 4.2.2. — Section 2.2.4 To gain access to the 64B/66B code stream the PSN-bound NSP further MUST perform … Further the PSN-bound NSP MUST perform rate compensation and scrambling before the PSN-bound IWF is mapping the same into the basic PLE payload. … The CE-bound NSP function MUST perform … When sending the bit stream to the CE, the CE-bound NSP function MUST also perform — Section 4.3. Various conformance to [G.707] and [GR253] is stated but neither are normative references. — Section 4.4.* Various statements of the form ‘… MUST perform‘ are made in these subsections. However, as in Sections 4.2.*, the FC references are not normative. Can the referenced behavior please be specified more clearly? — Section 7.2.2 The recovered clock MUST comply with the jitter and wander requirements applicable to the type of attachment circuit, specified in: * [G.825] and [G.823] for SDH * [GR253] for SONET * [G.8261] for synchronous Ethernet * [G.8251] for OTN Given the mandatory conformance guidance in the quote above, all of the references made in the quote need to be normative.
Thank you to Joel Halpern for the GENART review. ** Section 4.5 The PSN-bound NSP function MUST terminate the FEC and replace the OTUk overhead in row 1 columns 8-14 with all-0s fixed stuff which results in a extended ODUk frame as illustrated in Figure 3. What is ‘all 0s fixed stuff’? ** Section 7.2 While the PLOS defect is declared the CE-bound NSP function SHOULD inject the appropriate native downstream fault indication signal. Also the PSN-bound IWF SHOULD set the R bit in the PLE control word of every packet transmitted. … Whenever the R bit is set in the PLE control word of a received PLE packet the PLE performance monitoring statistics SHOULD get updated. In what cases would the behavior described above not be followed? Why are these a SHOULD and not a MUST? ** Section 7.4 … and SHOULD be provided by a YANG model. The YANG model specification is out of scope for this document. Why is this sections prescribing normative behavior for something that is out of scope? ** Section 9 Control plane mechanisms for signaling the expected SSRC value are described in [I-D.draft-schmutzer-bess-bitstream-vpws-signalling] and [I-D.draft-schmutzer-pals-ple-signaling]. Are the signaling mechanisms described in these drafts mandatory to follow? ** Section 11 The authors would like to thank all reviewers, contributors and the working group for reviewing this document and providing useful comments and suggestions (Editorial) Consider actually naming the parties who provided reviews or feedback that contributed to the document.
Thanks for working on this specification. Thanks to Tommy Pauly for the TSVART review. I have one discuss point - # I didn't find the rational to use RTP header in this protocol. If we are only interestes in timestamp, SSRC and PT (not sure why we need it), and setting rest of bits to zeros then why can't we incorporate timestamp, SSRC in the PLE control word? I would like to see a description on the rationale on the use RTP here and proper description of the RTP endpoint behaviour. To me it is important, as RTP has a particular use and I am not sure if these simulated packets will never reach to a proper RTP endpoint. I think we can improve this specification by explicitly saying best practices for the isolation of the PSN is a MUST, if RTP header is used.
Apart from my discuss point - I had hard time to understand the following section The RTP header is purely a formal reuse and RTP mechanisms, such as header extensions, contributing source (CSRC) list, padding, RTP Control Protocol (RTCP), RTP header compression, Secure Realtime Transport Protocol (SRTP), etc., are not applicable to PLE VPWS. Specially, what does "purely a formal reuse" mean? My "formal" reuse will mean a proper RTP endpoint with RTCP. Also please explain the need ofr PT in PLE header.
In general, I found this draft to be easier to follow than some. Thanks to Christian Huitema for his security review. I recommend that the rewrite of the Security Considerations paragraph outlined here: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pals/lALbFW32nmmBVVAG68K7xLRUDZ8/ be considered.
Thanks for addressing my comments!
Thanks for this document. Minor comments: Section 3.1 'Terminology' - 'SRH - Segment Routing Header' is defined in RFC 8754 NOT RFC 8402. Section 3.1 'Terminology' - 'SR-TE - Segment Routing Traffic Engineering [RFC9256]'. RFC 9256 defines Segment Routing Policy Architecture. Please use a reference that accurately reflects where you use the SR-TE term.
I support Francesca's discuss.
I support Roman's and Francesca's DISCUSS
Thanks for addressing my previous DISCUSS for the -12 and considering my comments below (kept for archiving purposes). The previous DISCUSS is archived at: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pals/Spfarc0uyWsYjw63YB5HLytlkXA/ ## COMMENTS (non-blocking) for archiving purpose only ### Added latency Should there be some guidance about the added latency due to the packetization (could be reduced with packet size) and jitter buffer size ? ### Abstract & section 1 s/This document describes/This document specifies/ in a PS ;-) Is `high-speed bit-streams` really part of this specification ? I.e., this technique could also be used with really slow links. ### Section 1 Suggest to expand PE at first use even if it is a knows acronym as it is expanded later in the text. s/Ethernet connected/Ethernet-connected/ ? What is `Synchronous Ethernet`, honestly I do not know, hence an informative reference is welcome. Should there be an informational reference to `Fibre Channel` ? A graphic for the SONET/SDH explanations would add to the text (even if the text is clear as it is). Just a suggestion. `PDH` is not yet expanded at this point. ### Section 3.1 Just a suggestion for the reader, keep this section but also expand the acronyms at first use (because then they are more understandable -- few readers will read and understand a terminology section that only contains expansions without explanations). ### Section 3.2 s/The local oscillators C/The local clock C/ ? Is it clock or frequency in `frequency synchronization available`? Because the word frequency was never used before. A reference (more than the expansion of section 3.1) for `BITS` will be welcome. ### Section 5.1 Isn't it obvious that C-SID can be used ? => suggest removing this sentence (feel free to ignore). Suggest to have a sub-section for the SRv6 behaviours. s/The next header field of the SRH or last extension header/The next header field of the SRH or *the* last extension header/ s/The push of the SRH/The *insertion* of the SRH/ also add "per RFC 8986". What is `pushed IPv6 header` ? If this is the SRH, then let's be clear (and BTW IPv6 is not MPLS, there is no "push" ;-) ). ### Section 7.2.1 Suggest to make it clear that all packets are of the same size in `fixed size PLE payloads` ### Section 10 Suggest to add (e.g., via a reference) the URI of the IANA (sub)registries. Also, there is no `Segment Routing Parameters`, only a `Segment Routing` one ;-) ## NITS (non-blocking / cosmetic) ### Use of SVG Suggest trying the "aasvg" tool to have nicer graphics in HTML/PDF rendering (worth a try). ### ethernet Check that Ethernet is always capitalised.