Ballot for draft-ietf-tls-tls13-pkcs1

Discuss

Mohamed Boucadair

Yes

Deb Cooley
Paul Wouters

No Objection

Andy Newton
Erik Kline
Gorry Fairhurst
Gunter Van de Velde
Jim Guichard
Ketan Talaulikar
Mahesh Jethanandani
Mike Bishop
Roman Danyliw
Éric Vyncke

No Record

Orie Steele

Summary: Has a DISCUSS. Has enough positions to pass once DISCUSS positions are resolved.

Mohamed Boucadair
Discuss
Discuss (2025-10-15) Sent
Hi David and Andrei, 

Thank you for the effort put into this specification. 

Please find some points for DISCUSSion:

# PS for a non-recommended scheme?

CURRENT:
   The "Recommended" column should be set to "N"

I understand this is addressing a specific deployment case. I also understand that some interoperability is needed here to follow the guidance in the document. Still, this is about non-recommended scheme. Any reason why are we publishing this as PS?

# draft-ietf-tls-rfc8447bis says the following:

   N:  Indicates that the item has not been evaluated by the IETF and
      that the IETF has made no statement about the suitability of the
      associated mechanism.  This does not necessarily mean that the
      mechanism is flawed, only that no consensus exists.  The IETF
      might have consensus to leave an items marked as "N" on the basis
      of its having limited applicability or usage constraints.

   D:  Indicates that the item is discouraged.  This marking could be
      used to identify mechanisms that might result in problems if they
      are used, such as a weak cryptographic algorithm or a mechanism
      that might cause interoperability problems in deployment.  When
      marking a registry entry as “D”, either the References or the
      Comments Column MUST include sufficient information to determine
      why the marking has been applied.  Implementers and users SHOULD
      consult the linked references associated with the item to
      determine the conditions under which the item SHOULD NOT or MUST
      NOT be used.

Given there was a design choice to remove support in 8446/8446 bis and reading of the above definitions, it seems that we are more on the D side than the N side. 

# Clear applicability Scope

I think that a clear/dedicated section to LOUDLY describe the applicability scope is needed here.

# Update RFC8446/RFC8446bis

The provisions in this draft relax what used to be disallowed in 8446/8446bis. This reads like an update.
Comment (2025-10-15) Sent
# FIPS 186-4

## Please add a reference

## s/with FIPS 186-4/with US FIPS 186-4

# Default

CURRENT:
   TLS implementations SHOULD disable these code points by default.  See
   Section 4.

## Wouldn’t MUST be appropriate here? 

## Which part of Section 4 is relevant to this point? I failed to see the logic for that reference.

# TLS Registries

CURRENT:
   IANA is requested to create the following entries in the TLS
   SignatureScheme registry, defined in [RFC8446].   

Isn’t draft-ietf-tls-rfc8447bis authoritative here for registry matters? I would replace the 8446 citation with draft-ietf-tls-rfc8447bis.

Cheers,
Med
Deb Cooley
Yes
Comment (2025-10-20) Sent
Thanks to Rifaat Shekh-Yusef for their secdir review. 

This specification needs to be PS so that TLS server implementations will modify their TLS offerings where client authentication is necessary.  The same situation is true for 'N' vs 'D'.

This specification allow clients using hardware storage devices (TPMs, Secure Elements, etc.) to migrate to TLS 1.3. 

I support those positions.
Paul Wouters
Yes
Andy Newton
No Objection
Erik Kline
No Objection
Gorry Fairhurst
No Objection
Gunter Van de Velde
No Objection
Jim Guichard
No Objection
Ketan Talaulikar
No Objection
Mahesh Jethanandani
No Objection
Mike Bishop
No Objection
Comment (2025-10-21) Sent
I've previously reviewed this document, and the changes are minor. It looks like a solid solution for these devices. I believe "N" is an appropriate value since that indicates the value "either has not been through the IETF consensus process, has limited applicability, or is intended only for specific use cases" -- this document clearly describes why, despite having IETF consensus, it falls into the latter two buckets.

However, it does seem clear that this document modifies restrictions in RFC8446(bis). While it defines new codepoints with differing behavior for the SignatureScheme enum and thus isn't changing the definition of those codepoints, it is modifying the requirement in CertificateVerify handling that `RSA signatures MUST use an RSASSA-PSS algorithm, regardless of whether RSASSA-PKCS1-v1_5 algorithms appear in "signature_algorithms".`
Roman Danyliw
No Objection
Éric Vyncke
No Objection
Orie Steele
No Record