A Non-Queue-Building Per-Hop Behavior (NQB PHB) for Differentiated Services
draft-ietf-tsvwg-nqb-33
Yes
Gorry Fairhurst
(Erik Kline)
No Objection
Deb Cooley
Gunter Van de Velde
Jim Guichard
Note: This ballot was opened for revision 30 and is now closed.
Gorry Fairhurst
Yes
Mohamed Boucadair
Yes
Comment
(2025-07-28 for -30)
Sent
Hi Greg, Thomas, and Ruediger,
Thank you for the effort put into this interesting piece of work. I strongly support the direction of this work.
Thanks to Giuseppe Fioccola for the OPSDIR review and to Greg for engaging and structuring “Operational Considerations” content.
Please find below some comments, fwiw:
# Other SDOs
The document cites many SDOs and includes a discussion about how the mapping is supposed to be undertaken for technologies not owned by the IETF. I wonder whether LSes were sent to these SDOs to seek for their review of these parts?
If not done, I suggest we do so.
# (abstract) NQ or NQB?
OLD:
In particular, the
application of NQ PHB to cable broadband links, Wi-Fi links, and
^^^^^^
mobile network radio and core segments are discussed.
NEW:
In particular, the
application of NQB PHB to cable broadband links, Wi-Fi links, and
mobile network radio and core segments are discussed.
# Terminology
We do say the following in the introduction:
This document defines a Differentiated Services per-hop behavior
(PHB) called the "Non-Queue-Building Per-Hop Behavior" (NQB PHB),
which isolates traffic microflows (application-to-application flows,
see [RFC2475]) that are relatively low data rate and that do not
I think that it is better to cite rfc2475#section-1.2.
As a general note, consider pointing readers to that terminology list.
# Applicable to access network, but not only
I suggest to make the following change to not exclude other segments where bottleneck may be experienced as well (interco, for example).
OLD:
In contrast to applications that frequently cause queuing delay,
there are a variety of relatively low data rate applications that do
not materially contribute to queuing delay and loss but are
nonetheless subjected to it by sharing the same bottleneck link in
the access network.
NEW:
In contrast to applications that frequently cause queuing delay,
there are a variety of relatively low data rate applications that do
not materially contribute to queuing delay and loss but are
nonetheless subjected to it by sharing the same bottleneck link in
the access network, in particular.
# Applicability
CURRENT:
This PHB is designed
for broadband access network links, where there is minimal
aggregation of traffic, and especially when buffers are deep.
Please point to Section 3.4 where applicability is discussed with more details.
# NQB DSCP
CURRENT:
To be clear, a network implementing the NQB PHB solely provides
isolation for traffic classified as behaving in conformance with the
NQB DSCP.
Not introduced yet. Maybe add a pointer to the section that defines that DSCP?
# Regulation
CURRENT:
Finally, some jurisdictions impose regulations that limit the ability
of networks to provide differentiation of services, in large part
this seems to be based on the belief that doing so necessarily
involves prioritization or privileged access to network capacity, and
thus a benefit to one class of traffic always comes at the expense of
another.
Why is this mentioned here? How does this impact this spec?
Also, when that point is linked to
In contrast, the NQB PHB has been designed with the goal that it
avoids many of these issues, and thus could conceivably be deployed
across the Internet.
I don’t see how this is different from any other PHB (for example, the regulation point).
# Jitter & Cie
CURRENT:
Instead, the sole
goal of the NQB PHB is to isolate NQB traffic from other traffic that
degrades loss, latency, and jitter performance, given that the NQB
traffic is itself only an insignificant contributor to those
degradations.
Many words for the same thing (e.g., Latency variation, jitter). Unless there are subtle differences assumed by the author, please use a consistent term here. I have a preference of IPPM terms (delay variation) to be aligned with the IETF terminology.
# Access control & trust
CURRENT:
In this context, the NQB
PHB provides a better network environment for applications that send
data at relatively low and non-bursty data rates.
Still the network decides which flows to bind to a PHB, right?
How the new PHB changes the trust practices out there? How classification will be done?
# Not L4S specific (Section 3.3)
CURRENT:
NQB network functions MUST treat packets marked with the NQB DSCP
uniformly, regardless of the value of the ECN field. Here, NQB
network functions refers to the traffic protection function (defined
in Section 5.2) and any re-marking/traffic policing function designed
to protect unmanaged networks (as described in Section 6.4.1).
## What is meant by “NQB network function”?
## I think this behavior is independent of the use of L4S. If so, is this the right place to have this recommendation? I would move this till the PHB is defined first.
# Eligible flows
Section 4 says:
Microflows that are eligible to be marked with the NQB DSCP are ones
that send non-bursty traffic at a low data rate relative to typical
network path capacities.
How these are identified and who decides these meet the conditions? Is this a local application choice? A provisioning action?
# Marking bidirectionality
Section 4 states:
Microflows marked with the NQB DSCP are expected to comply with
existing guidance for safe deployment on the Internet,
As this reasons about “microflow”, is there a bidirectionality need/assumptions? That is, do packets in both directions need to have the same marking?
I’m asking this question because some deployments uses a model where the marking from the host-to-the network is inherited from the marking set in network-to-host direction.
# Primary Requirements
I would rename Section 5.1 to “Provisioning Requirements”
# Per user or per subscriber?
Section 5.1 says:
To prevent propagation of degradation of service for NQB traffic
caused by potential mis-marking of QB traffic, network equipment that
supports this PHB and handles traffic for multiple users (e.g.,
subscribers) SHOULD support provisioning of capacity and related
forwarding resources on a per-user (e.g., subscriber) basis and
SHOULD support enforcement of the resulting per-user limits on the
aggregate of NQB and QB traffic for each user.
I guess this is per subscriber. Multiple users may share the same subscription.
At least, you should define “user”.
# Policy
Section 5.2 says:
In the case of a traffic protection algorithm
that reclassifies offending traffic, the implementation MAY
additionally re-mark such traffic to Default (or possibly to another
local use code point) so that the result of the traffic protection
decision can be used by further hops. This sort of re-marking could
provide a limited layer of protection in situations where downstream
network nodes support separate queuing for NQB marked packets but
lack support for traffic protection.
This behavior should be policy-based.
# Application-layer constructs might be useful in some cases, however relying on them exclusively should not be recommended
I suggest to make this change in Section 5.2
OLD:
The traffic protection function SHOULD NOT base its decisions upon
application-layer constructs (such as the port number used by the
application or the source/destination IP address). Instead, it ought
to base its decisions on the actual behavior of each microflow (i.e.
the pattern of packet arrivals).
NEW:
The traffic protection function SHOULD NOT base its decisions solely upon
^^^^^^
application-layer constructs (such as the port number used by the
application or the source/destination IP address). Instead, it ought
to base its decisions on the actual behavior of each microflow (i.e.,
the pattern of packet arrivals).
# Resource exhaustion
Section 5.2 says:
CURRENT:
The traffic protection function described here might require that the
network element maintains microflow state. The traffic protection
function MUST be designed such that the node implementing the NQB PHB
does not fail (e.g. crash) in the case that the microflow state is
exhausted.
Which is great… but can we be more explicit how to do that? For example, can we say “control/limit the resources dedicated to tracking misbehaving flows”?
Cheers,
Med
Andy Newton
No Objection
Comment
(2025-08-05 for -30)
Not sent
# Andy Newton, ART AD, comments for draft-ietf-tsvwg-nqb-30 CC @anewton1998 * line numbers: - https://author-tools.ietf.org/api/idnits?url=https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-tsvwg-nqb-30.txt&submitcheck=True * comment syntax: - https://github.com/mnot/ietf-comments/blob/main/format.md * "Handling Ballot Positions": - https://ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/handling-ballot-positions/ ## No Objection I have no objections to the publication of this document as an RFC. Many thanks to Robert Sparks for his ARTART review.
Deb Cooley
No Objection
Éric Vyncke
(was Discuss)
No Objection
Comment
(2025-08-06 for -31)
Sent
Thanks for addressing my previous DISCUSS issue and many of my COMMENT points. For archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tsvwg/hA1lxiGldJ7dtzp7x4aFT5zGm78/ Let me repeat the thanks to the authors and to the shepherd (Zahed) for an interesting piece of work.
Gunter Van de Velde
No Objection
Jim Guichard
No Objection
Ketan Talaulikar
No Objection
Comment
(2025-07-30 for -30)
Sent
Thanks to the authors and the WG for their work on this document. I have one question about the (lack of discussion of) impact of this new DiffServ codepoint behavior to MPLS. Specifically whether or not the mapping from NQB codepoint to the MPLS EXP would be done properly per RFC3270 or if something more/different is needed. Given that MPLS is an IETF technology, I would expect that this document at least covers some discussion (operational consideration?) of this topic. I contemplated if this would be a DISCUSS criteria, but sharing this as a comment instead as I am not a QOS expert and leaving this to the responsible AD's judgement. I also have the same question as Med if the liaisons were sent to IEEE 802.1, 3GPP and other SDOs that need to be made aware of this work at the IETF and to get their inputs.
Mike Bishop
No Objection
Comment
(2025-08-04 for -30)
Sent
Several abbreviations are used in this document without expansion or definition, or where the definition/expansion occurs later in the document. For example, "EF" is used in 6.3 without expansion or reference. Section 10 contains the reference to RFC3246, but the expansion to Expedited Forwarding isn't until Appendix B. (There is also a definition in RFC 4594, which is referenced in 6.3, but it's not clear from the text that the definition of these abbreviations can be found there.) DSCP is expanded in the abstract and again mid-way through Section 4, but used in abbreviated form throughout Section 1 and the preceding paragraphs of Section 4. The same could be said for VA, MSB, CSx, etc. and the equivalence between "Diffserv" and "Differentiated Services." The use of "gear" rather than "equipment" feels at odds with the otherwise formal tone of the specification, but that's a stylistic choice.
Roman Danyliw
(was Discuss)
No Objection
Comment
(2025-09-16 for -32)
Sent
Thank you to Vijay Gurbani for the GENART review. Thank you for addressing my DISCUSS feedback and answering my questions.
Erik Kline Former IESG member
Yes
Yes
(for -30)
Not sent
Orie Steele Former IESG member
No Objection
No Objection
(2025-08-06 for -30)
Not sent
Thank you to Robert Sparks for the ART ART review.
Paul Wouters Former IESG member
No Objection
No Objection
(2025-08-06 for -30)
Not sent
I support Roman's DISCUSS