Minutes IETF100: rtgarea
minutes-100-rtgarea-00

Routing Area Open Meeting (rtgarea)
IETF 100 (Singapore)

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Area Directors:
     Alia Atlas (akatlas@juniper.net)
     Deborah Brungard (db3546@att.com)
     Alvaro Retana (aretana@cisco.com)

Area Secretary:
     Jonathan Hardwick (jonathan.hardwick@metaswitch.com)

Wiki:
     https://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/WikiStart

Scribe:
     Jonathan Hardwick (jonathan.hardwick@metaswitch.com)

Location:
     Canning, Raffles City Convention Center, Singapore

Time:
     November 16, 2017, 1550-1750 (3:50pm-5:50pm)

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1. Administrivia
----------------

Chris Hopps: How many attendees are in fact WG chairs?  Attendance seems low.
             Is this just another chairs meeting?
(show of hands showed that about 50% are chairs, 50% not. A few people are at
their first IETF - welcome!)

Chris Hopps: Should we think about combining the RTG chairs meeting with this
             one?
Alvaro Retana: There may be some topics we can bring in from the RTG chairs
               meeting, but it would not have worked this time due to the
               scheduling constraints of the SEC ADs.

Alia Atlas: We encourage chairs to look for document shepherds on their mailing
            lists.  We encourage more people to take an interest in reviewing
            documents!

Alia Atlas: I will be standing down as AD at the next IETF.  I expect to close
            TRILL and to put I2RS into hiatus before stepping down. I also
            expect to merge the OSPF and ISIS working groups and to recharter
            SFC.

Deborah Brungard: Please get your NomCom comments in for the new Routing AD.
                  The feedback period runs to the end of next week

Alvaro Retana: You can give feedback to NomCom about candidates, or also on
               what you think is needed in the routing area, so they can talk
               to the candidates about that.

Alvaro Retana: In MANET, we will have a discussion about the future of the
               working group.  The spring working group is to be rechartered.

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2. Dynamic Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP)
   -------------------------------------
   Rick Taylor

Greg Mirsky: You should look at the work on links with variable discrete
             bandwidth in CCAMP and TEAS with RSVP-TE and IGP extensions.

Amy Ye: I work on microwave links. But in our device we have layer 3 functions.
        Your requirements sound quite different.
Rick Taylor: We are aiming to reach out to people like you. There is crossover.
             We are trying to get microwave people to add DLEP to their links.
             DLEP is an event driven way of driving routing, not prescriptive,
             so may differ from CCAMP's approach.

Justin Dean: I am the MANET chair.  In your presentation, you mentioned that we
             had developed DLEP in isolation.  I don't agree we've done it in
             isolation. Three radio vendors have adopted this and put it into
             their radios. Now we want routing people to look at it.
Rick Taylor: I meant that there has not been much exposure in the IETF.

Justin Dean: DLEP can help routing protocols decide when to take a link up or
             bring it down.  When we first started in MANET, we did not have
             DLEP so we had to rely on network drivers.
             Without DLEP it is hard to route around a problem link in a mesh
             radio network.

Greg Mirsky: Y.1731 has a 'bandwidth notification extension' (the extension is
             BN.1731) which may perform a similar function. We noticed this
             when we were adding the discrete bandwidth available enhancement
             to OSPF and RSVP-TE. It is worth being aware of.

Rick Taylor: SDN is prescriptive but DLEP is reactive. Making them work
             together is a challenge. BFD and DLEP should work together really
             well. Once DLEP has told you a links is there, BFD can keep it up.
             We also want to talk to the other routing protocols to find
             out if there are any best practices for using DLEP with those
             protocols. We also have this question to the ADs: is MANET really
             the right place for DLEP?

IJsbrand Wijnands: Multicast does not work well over wireless. Do you have
                   anything to improve it?
Rick Taylor: DLEP does not do anything specifically for optimizing multicast.
             It allows a radio system that does do multicast to tell the router
             about it - but it is up to the radio system how the multicast
             works.
Alvaro Retana: MANET has something in the charter for wireless propagation of
               multicast. PIM has also discussed it.

Lou Berger: DLEP supports radios with an Ethernet service model or an IP
            service model. There are interesting differences to the use cases.
Rick Taylor: We have work ongoing to make IP service model more usable.

Lou Berger: DLEP is a reporting protocol, so in a variable rate system it will
            give notifications about the changes in bandwidth. This is a
            different model to the CCAMP model that Amy mentioned.
Rick Taylor: Agreed. DLEP is primarily a channel to allow reporting events up
             to the router. It is not used for management, so you can't use it
             to set link attributes, bandwidth etc.
Deborah Brungard: So instead of using SDN to configure parameters, you learn it
                  from the link layer. This is different to CCAMP's model.
                  Unlike LMP, where you are managing the link properties.
Rick Taylor: In SDN the controller may assume it can set the link bandwidth
             e.g. I need 173 Mb.  With DLEP you get told that the bandwidth is
             only 120Mb, so you don't just read the config file and assume that
             it's 173 Mb when it's not.
Jeff Tantsura: You could use BGP-LS northbound to inform the controller when
               the effective bandwidth changes, but it's not clear whether this
               would be fast enough. The timing could be critical.

Lou Berger: DLEP is like LMP for a different market sector. It would have made
            sense to combine them. DLEP is still growing.

Alvaro Retana: If you have thoughts on where we should work on DLEP, let us
               know. Come to MANET and tell us.


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3. Working Group and BoF Reports
--------------------------------
  - Routing Directorate Report
  - WG Chair Reports

See the wiki for the contents of the reports:
https://trac.ietf.org/trac/rtg/wiki/IETF100summary

Only comments that are not readable in the wiki are recorded in the minutes.

BIER: (Tony Przygienda) The BIER architecture was published. So we went out for
      beers until 3am. Which is why Ice has no voice. Now we need to recharter.
      (Alia Atlas) I aim to recharter BIER before stepping down.

OSPF: (Alvaro Retana) The segment routing architecture is now scheduled for a
      telechat, which will unblock the OSPF segment routing draft.
      (Alia) Wouldn't it be great if the ISIS segment routing draft could be
      ready at the same time?

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4. Open Discussion / Any other business
----------------------------------------

Alia Atlas: Please be aware of the following.
            (i) Path Aware Research Group (it would be nice to have larger
            routing presence there).
            (ii) ANRW in Montreal for IETF 102 is open for papers.

Alia Atlas: Question 1: How many are active in any of the open source projects
            related to networking? (quite a few)  Is anybody unaware of these
            projects? (nobody)
            Qusetion 2: How many have ideas of how we can engage better with
            it?  (A few)
            Question 3: Do you feel we can be more aware of what is going on
            elsewhere?  (Universally, yes)

Jeff Tantsura: In RTGWG, we have several interesting topics, including
               virtualization, slicing and multi-access.  If you have other
               topics then please bring them.

Deborah Brungard: Please make more use of the hackathon. Recently, PCE won an
                  award there. More of this, please.

Meeting closed at 1745.
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