Minutes IETF103: nmrg

Meeting Minutes Network Management (nmrg) RG Snapshot
Title Minutes IETF103: nmrg
State Active
Other versions plain text
Last updated 2018-11-08

Meeting Minutes

NMRG 50th meeting
IETF 103, Bangkok, Thailand

RG Chair:
   Laurent Ciavaglia

Available During Session:
   Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/session/nmrg
   Meetecho: http://www.meetecho.com/ietf103/nmrg/

Available Post Session:
   Audio recording: https://www.ietf.org/audio/ietf103/
   Video recording: https://www.youtube.com/user/ietf/playlists

  1. Introduction, NMRG Chair
  11:20, 5 min.

  2. Progress on current research agenda
  2a. Summary of Intent Based Networking topic and workshop at IETF 102
  11:25, 10 min.

  2b. Summary of Artificial Intelligence topic and sessions at IETF 102
  11:35, 10 min.

  2c. Summary of Autonomic Networking 3.0 topic
  11:45, 10 min.

  3. Discussion on the future of NMRG
  Open mic discussion
  Wrap-up and information of way forward
  11:55, 25 min.


The meeting covered two aspects: 1) progress of ongoing research items:
intent-based networking, autonomic networking, and use of AI techniques for
network management – and 2) evolution of the RG (“re-chartering”).

On the Intent based network work: comments from the room highlighted the work
is important and could deliver good results, useful for the IETF and the
industry at large. However, some comments pointed to the document on
“terminology”, concepts and definitions stating as starting too late because
solutions in the industry are already being developed and deployed, and the
technology is discussed in the engineering community. Another comment
highlighted the need to perform intent validation (across the “layers”,
“models” and across “domains”), correlating telemetry with intent.

On autonomic networking work: comment expressed some work needed to define how
the ANIMA/ACP is applicable and working in case of multiple distributed
autonomous entities, yet the overall system is still seen as a unified one.
Comment to have a look at the work from the DTN WG which has experience with
autonomy for communication. Proposal to define the self-CHOP, use cases and
technologies applicable. A previous, now expired draft was going into that
direction. Comment also mentioned other groups active such as ETSI ENI,
collaboration encouraged.

On use of AI techniques for network management work: due to issue with the
remote presenter, the chair read the slides. Comments received were positive
and supportive of the work in the area. Also pointed the RG should deliver
something now. Comment pointed the central role of data in the AI/ML techniques
and need to have work on the use of data in this topic.

On the future of NMRG, the chair gave an introduction about some important
questions (collective goal, type of output, beneficiaries…) , working
principles (pluri-disciplinary and cross-fertilization) and introduced some
topics. The discussion highlighted different viewpoints on the role and
timeframe for the work of a RG (short/longer term research, awareness to IETF,
address current problems/look into new stuff…). Beyond good topics, good
resources are needed to bring work forward and to completion e.g. work on
autonomic networking started in NMRG that finally led to the creation of the
ANIMA WG. Linkage between WG and RG should be fostered. Another comment
highlighted the need to both progress on the ongoing items and bring new
ideas/topics. The chair closed the discussion by stressing that a
transformation of the RG is ongoing, we should discuss/work on it but most
importantly conclude the transformation and deliver.

  Thanks to Dean for the minutes, and Jéferson for the Meetecho scribe

DB: Dean Bogdanovic (Volta Networks)
JT: Jeff Tantsura (Apstra)
JN: Jeferson Nobre
BL: Bing Liu (Huawei)
PMJ: Pedro Martinez-Julia (National Institute of Information and Communication
Technology Japan) RT: Rick Taylor (Airbus) WL: Will Liu (Huawei) PL: Paolo
Lucente LC: Laurent Ciavaglia

Agenda bashing
discussing research agenda presented in the ieee article
6-7 active documents
please look at the documents to discuss the future of the NMRG
most meetings co-located with IETF, one possible outside of IETF, IM 19,
Washington 19 reach out to IEEE and similar communities poll to find out about
the interest in other co-located meetings, AI, operator meetings (NANOG, RIPE)

Summary of the intent-based-networking-00
presenter Jefferson Nobre
DB: taxonomy of the terms. little bit too late, actively discussed in the
engineering communities.

JT: You need cross-validation between different models and there is lot of work
between different models (service, device) being done. JN: We need clear
definition of intent for use in the IETF and IRTF.  There is division between
different types of intents which have to be defined

Summary of the Autonomic Networking
presenter: Jeferson Noble
Dean: thing to do urgently. new perspectives into network management
requirements e.g. the ACP: highly distributed if each entities act
autonomously, still seen as a unified system. this is an intermediate step
needed. Rick: deep space communication large experience on autonomy. DTN . If
you want to learn more about, come tomorrow to DTN tomorrow morning Bing Liu:
propose new work. mention self-CHOP. propose taxonomy on self-CHOP. Look at
different scenarios where self-CHOP could be used and how other technologies
can help. JN: There is a draft from Costas from long time ago was about the
topics BL mentioned. We can discuss about this Will Liu Huawei: Supports the
work on this topic. New consortium was started to address this problems and is
interesting to cooperate with NMRG

Extending Intelligent Network Management Beyond SW and Logical Boundaries
presenter: Pedro Martinez-Julia
problem with the audio connection and the presentation was cut

Laurent Ciavaglia continues presenting the slides due to technical
difficulties. Apologizes for not being able to provide deeper view of the
document and answer the question Rick Taylor (Airbus): Good presentation, good
points, we have to answer some of the questions from the document. We have to
go and do it somehow. Here or in another SDOs WL: All the ML/AI are based on
data.  There should be work done to find out other ways

Talk about possible new co-chair soon

What is the future of the NMRG?
presenter Laurent Ciavaglia
Some ideas and topics
–Managing at ultra-low and high scales and speed
–Role and place of human (in the (management) loop), human-network
interactions, instrumentation, visualization, trust/oversight
–Post-NETCONF/YANG era –Site/Network Reliability Engineering field (SRE/NRE) We
have lot of freedom how we work

Dean: timeframe
RT: No timeframe should be defined, looking what is happened. Linkage bw
IETF/IRTF. Awareness of what's happening, guide WGs DB: mid-term things get
lost and surprise can happen to the IETF RT: a good balance should be JT: it is
cool to jump into new things, there are some stuff to be solved and directions
is needed. Help the IETF LC: this is one of the questions should be addressed
DB: as individual and NOMCOM 2018. ask candidates about linkage IRTF/IETF.
inputs to IETF very much important. awareness PL: I'm supporting DB comments as
from my work running into issues as there is no standardization in certain
areas RT: agree with DB. Nice summary. IRTF should foster research and raise
awareness LC: Topics are very important. Resources are also very important.
Different people from different backgrounds providing info. We need people to
contribute, not just open and present problems. RT: IETG WG chair hat on. What
IRTG RG are working? Ask IETF to chip in to the work LC: there are examples of
well collaboration, good example is ANIMA WL: one is about continuity, like
intent. The other one is about bringing new work to the RG LC: it will take
time to transform this RG. We have to conclude what is our plan and then
implement it. I'm trying to steer this transformation. Your input is important.
Please contribute to this process