Minutes IETF103: ntp
minutes-103-ntp-00
| Meeting Minutes | Network Time Protocols (ntp) WG | |
|---|---|---|
| Date and time | 2018-11-06 09:10 | |
| Title | Minutes IETF103: ntp | |
| State | Active | |
| Other versions | plain text | |
| Last updated | 2018-11-18 |
minutes-103-ntp-00
NTP WG Meeting ============== IETF 103 - Bangkok. Marriott Marquis Queen's Park Location: Boromphimarn 1/2 Date: Tuesday, November 6, 2018, 16:10 - 18:10 UTC+7 (9:10 - 11:10 UTC) Chairs: Karen O'Donoghue, Dieter Sibold AD: Suresh Krishnan Presentation materials: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/session/ntp (remote participation via meetecho) Note tacker: Dieter Sibold Jabber: Rich Salz 1. CHAIR'S SLIDES ------------------ Presenter: Karen O'Donoghue Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-ntp-ntp-wg-chair-slides-00 Summary: - Karen presents the Note Well - No agenda bashing 2. TICTOC WG STATUS ------------------- - YANG Data Model for IEEE 1588-2008 is in the second IETF LC https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-tictoc-1588v2-yang - Suresh: - placed a disclaimer that the IEEE 1588 standard is not available openly - There was an issue that IESG members thought that the document cannot be good enough reviewed because the standard is not available - Before start of the second IETF LC Karen arranged that reviewer will get access to this document upon request (no request upon now) - After IETF LC this will go back to IESG - The IEEE 1588 Enterprise Profile will have the same issue - IEEE 1588 Enterprise Profile https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tictoc-ptp-enterprise-profile - Karen: this document is going to be passed to IESG - TICTOC WG is about to be closed if those documents are published. All time related work will be moved to the NTP WG. 3. NTP WG STATUS ---------------- - Message Authentication Code for the Network Time Protocol https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ntp-mac - Karen: is in IESG review process - Suresh: IETF LC has been extended because of the IETF week. It will finish the Monday after the IETF 103 - Suresh: will be considered at next IESG telechat 2018-11-25 - Suresh: It's already been with the Sec AD. - Suresh: one reviewer ask if backward compatibility is ensured - Aanchal: NTP provides algorithm agility. - Control Messages Protocol for Use with NTPv4 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ntp-mode-6-cmds - will go to the IESG after the shepherd writeup is finished - NTP Data Minimization https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ntp-data-minimization - Suresh: comments about BCP. During IETF LC the status as BCP was discussed. We should think about that. - Karen: This should be a BCP (also recommended by Brian) - Karen: It is intended to answer all comments of the IETF LC and afterwards go through the whole document to make the language more BCP like. 4. GUIDELINES FOR DEFINING PACKET TIMESTAMPS --------------------------------------------- https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ntp-packet-timestamps Presenter: Tal Mizrahi Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-ntp-packet-timestamp-formats-00 Summary: - Some comments are still open. Shall be addressed during WGLC - Next steps: WGLC went out one hour ago. 5. NTS FOR NTP (DRAFT -14) --------------------------- https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ntp-using-nts-for-ntp Presenter: Dieter Sibold Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-ntp-update-of-network-time-security-for-the-network-time-protocol-00 Summary: - Daniel ask for changes between the version -12 und -13 - Karen, Dieter: Version -13 includes the additions proposed by the draft draft-dansarie-nts-00 - Next steps: WLGC agreed with no objections 6. NTS IMPLEMENTATIONS AND INTEROPERABILITY TESTING ---------------------------------------------------- - Karen: We have done Hackathon project in London and Montreal. No project at Bangkok, because key implementors are not here. - NTF's NTS Implementation Richard: - partial interoperability with the implementation of Martin Langer - full interoperability wihtin 2 weeks (draft -12) - After that separation of key exchange and time server Any other updates? - Dieter: Martin Langer supervised a student project at the Univ. of Applied Science Ostfalia that successfully implemented NTS - Aanchal plans to implement NTS in GO-Language for interoperability testing Interop Testing plans - Karen: Implementation work is planned also for the next Hackathon in Prag - Karen: will setup a mailing list for implementation efforts. It will be announced at the NTP mailing list 7. A SECURE SELECTION AND FILTERING MECHANISM FOR THE NTPV4 ------------------------------------------------------------- https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-schiff-ntp-chronos Presenter: Nita Schiff Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-ntp-a-secure-selection-and-filtering-mechanism-for-the-network-time-protocol-version-4-00 Summary: - No comments and questions - Next steps: - Compare Chronos and NTP with respect ot accuracy and precision - Revise the draft based on the discussion on the mailing list - Present a updated version at the next IETF meeting 8. NETWORK TIME PROTOCOL BEST CURRENT PRACTICES ------------------------------------------------ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ntp-bcp - Karen: Document is in IETF LC - Denis: many comments from reviewers. Currently, most comments are incorporated in a the new version of the draft (accessible on Github) - Denis. this new version will be submitted within the next days (version -08) - Denis: most reviewer require more precise language. Therefore a complete re-draft of the document will straighten the language (version -09) - Karen: are all comments answered? - Denis: all except GENART - Suresh: Are Joe Touch and Nick comments answered? - Denis: will check and otherwise reply - Karen: what is the timeframe for the revised version (version -09)? - Denis: Within a week or two, certainly before the end of this month - Suresh: Will it be ready before the telechat in December? - Denis: Yes 9. LEAPSECOND LIST MAINTENANCE ------------------------------- Karen: Leap second file https://www.ietf.org/timezones/data/leap-seconds.list - maintained by Judah Levine - Question: Is this still in use by implementations? - If it is still in use we need to document how it will be maintained. Denis: My impression was that it is maintained with the timezone database Karen: The maintenance ot the timezone database was transfered to IANA and there is a RFC that describes the maintenance. The leap second file is not part of it. Harlan: cannot hear Denis Martin Burnicki (chat): The leap second file is part of the timezone database Karen: The key is that there is this one file on the IETF website that appears not to be maintained. Need to have some volunteers that help to clarify how to proceed with this file. Karen: Can we get rid of this file if we don't need it? Jared: We can remove it. If this breaks something we could quickly write a document that describes how it is maintained Harlan (chat): If the IETF will not maintain it the NTF will do it. Karen: If it is needed for an IETF protocol the IETF is happy to maintain it. It just have to be documented. That is right now not the case. Jared: If there is a standard (not just a implementation) that requires this file it should be document (accessibility, format, etc.) Harlan (chat): NTP uses this files Karen: Harlan and Martin can you work with me on that? Jared: if there is no WG or IETF document that requires this file it should be removed Next steps: Discussion this offline. Harlan, Martin B., Denis will work on this. 10. NTP INTERLEAVE MODE ------------------------ No presentation https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ntp-interleaved-modes Miroslav: No changes in the document Miroslav: Issue raised on previous meeting: NAT will break the client-server interleave mode. This is not an issue. Posted link to a minimum implementation. This demonstrates that this is not really an issue. It also shows that an implementation of this protocol is quite simple. Karen: is this document ready for WGLC? Mirsolav: Yes Next steps: WGLC (no objections) Harlan: It requires state information on the server Miroslav: Yes, small state information is needed (16 Byte per client) 11. ON IMPLEMENTING TIME ------------------------- https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-aanchal-time-implementation-guidance-01 Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides-103-ntp-on-implementing-time-00 Presenter: Aanchal Malhotra Rich: I have problems seeing where this would go. Aanchal: Planned to be published as a informational document. Kyle: Remains me of the Consideration of randomness RFC. It provides guidance for implementors. It seems useful. Suresh: Agree, it should be published as Informational. If it is not publish than keep it on a group wiki. The content is static. Therefore it should be published as informational draft. Karen: WG chair hat off. This should be published as an RFC. A wiki page wouldn't be appropriate. Suresh: Sometimes a Wiki is useful. Especially if the content is very dynamic. But this should be published. Karen: is there opposition to adopt this as a WG document? No opposition! Next steps: Call for WG adoption 12. NETWORK TIME PROTOCOL REFID UPDATES --------------------------------------- https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ntp-refid-updates Karen: This started a three different proposals for RefIDs. I asked them to combine them into one. Now, two of the proposals are pretty solid, one is controversial. We therefore ask them to pull them apart (into two documents). This have been done. The RefID update draft is stable now The leap smearing was removed from this draft and submitted separately. Next steps: WGLC 13. NTP CORRECTION FIELD ------------------------ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mlichvar-ntp-correction-field Miroslav: - A new version has been submitted. - Now it uses the format of the PTP correction field. Existing HW can interpret it. Karen: Please discussed this with Tal. Please indicate if you both agree. Next steps: WG Adoption call if agreement with Tal is achieved 14. NTPV4 SHORT EXTENSION FIELDS -------------------------------- https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mlichvar-ntp-short-extension-fields-00 Miroslav: - This is a new draft allowing short EF - It is compatible with RFC 7822 - No ambiguity with parsing - Allows shorter EF as with 7822 - Is a alternative proposal to draft draft-stenn-ntp-extension-fields - Harlan: not happy with this draft. Want to discuss this on the mailing list - Karen: EF related drafts are devided into two categories: 1. draft which describes how EF work 2. drafts which specifies new types of EFs Drafts in the first category needs to be considered to changing, updating or extending RFC 7822 WG should read it. Well write, clear and precise. - Next steps: discussion on the mailing list 15. A YANG DATA MODEL FOR NTP ------------------------------ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ntp-yang-data-model Karen: - an Yang Doctor's review has been done. - They plan an update based on the feedback obtained - It is ready for WGLC once it is updated. - The only real issue was about how much details to put into the descriptions Harlan: is concerned not to see much detail in the draft. Should it not be more like RFC 5907? Karen: Possibly? Would be good if such comments would be submitted much earlier. Next step: Issue an WGLC if the next update is submitted 16. ADDITIONAL EXTENSION FIELD PROPOSALS ---------------------------------------- https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-stenn-ntp-extended-information/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-stenn-ntp-i-do/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-stenn-ntp-mac-last-ef/ https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-stenn-ntp-suggest-refid/ Karen: these should be updated to conform to 7822 Harlan: each of these drafts supports padding within the EF. Therefore compatibility with 7822 is given Karen: ask for objections for WG adoption. No objections. Next steps: will ask for call for adoption on the mailing list 17. AOB ------- - Encourage remote presenters to use to test tools provided by the meetecho team. - Please read the draft draft-stenn-ntp-leap-smear-refid-01. Discussion has to go to the mailing list. - Two interim meeting prior to IETF 104 are planned. 18. Wrap Up (5 min)