Minutes IETF104: ipwave
minutes-104-ipwave-01

IPWAVE WG meeting at IETF 104
FRIDAY, 29 March 2019 at 10:50-12:50, Athens/Barcelona

Chairs: Russ Housley, Carlos J. Bernardos
Minute takers: Jaehoon Paul Jeong
Jabber scribe: Russ Housley

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10:50 Administrativia  .......................................... 10 min
      Presenter: IPWAVE WG Chairs
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Carlos introduces the meeting, and the etherpad will be used for notes.
WG progress is behind the milestone, so we need to speed up.
The IPv6 over 802.11-OCB document got comments from IntDir and IoTDir.
After the IPv6 over 802.11-OCB and Problem Statement documents are done,
  other work can be considered for a recharter.
IPWAVE Problem Statement document is revised to address the reviews by
  Charlie and Sri.
During this meeting, the focus will be on the two WG documents.

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** HACKATHON report

11:00 Implementing IPWAVE Basic Protocols  ...................... 20 min
          Presenter: Jaehoon Paul Jeong
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Paul Jeong (PJ) presents: We participated Hackathon to show the concept
  of our WG drafts.
We want to make sure the IPv6 over OCB mode works well.
We also implemented multihop DAD.
Several people joined this Hackathon project.
The figure in the slides shows the basic Vehicular Network Architecture.
Vehicles can talk with other vehicles, and also communicate with RSUs.
A vehicle can configure its IPv6 address by the prefix from an RSU.
Safety case: V2V communication should be used.
We consider a multiple-link subnet model; it is a possible solution.
MA is in charge of mobility information for multiple vehicles.
We try to reduce the standard DAD overhead.
We use two simulators, SUMO and Veins.
SUMO provides mobility information.
Vehicle structure enables IPv6 access.
Support both a WAVE stack and a TCP/IP stack, using 802.11 in OCB mode.
Open source code was posted in GitHub.

Sri Gundavelli (SG): Your implementation is in simulator?

PJ: We implemented it in the simulator, not the linux kernel.
    
SK: In the simulator, you implement this process?

PJ: Simulations are the proof-of-concept work.  Hope in the future, we
  can continue work on the topic.

Carlos Bernardos (CB): I understand that you implemented one of your
  proposed drafts.  This is useful, but at this stage, we need feedback
  from experimentation with the IPv6 over OCB document.  Did you
  experience any issue with that?
    
Chris Shen (CS): We implemented IPv6 over OCB, and no issues were found.

PJ: This hackathon implemented IPv6 over OCB for Ethernet Adaptation
  Layer and Vehicular Neighbor Discovery.

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** IPWAVE WG documents

11:20 Transmission of IPv6 Packets over IEEE 802.11 Networks  ... 20 min
      in mode Outside the Context of a Basic Service Set
         Presenter: Alex Petrescu
         Draft: draft-ietf-ipwave-ipv6-over-80211ocb-34
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alex Petrescu (AP): We implemented IPv6 over OCB in real cars, and we
  demonstrated it for POC with the V2V of three cars.
ETSI (TC ITS) will take advantage of IPWAVE for IP-based V2X
  communications.
This draft was revised from -31 to -34:
 - Handover behavior is clarified;
 - Clarification of MAC address privacy example;
 - The section about ND is simplified;
 - Improvement of handover with MIPv6 and DNAv6;
 - Improvement of ND retransmissions in respect to packet loss; and
 - Appendix of channel use is added. 
 
SG: DNAv6, is it dead?

Suresh Krishnan (SK): It is an RFC; it is not dead.  There are some
  implementations with some variations of it.

IoTDir and IntDir Reviews questioning the Ethernet Adaptation Layer as
  AP bridging Ethernet to WiFi?
    - IPv6 over OCB does not bridge between these interfaces; and
    - It bridges between layers (Ethernet/WiFi layer and IP layer).

Pascal Thubert (PT): IPv6 over OCB can refer to 6lo for optimizations.

SK: Optimization like 6lo's work can be left as future work.

SG: OCB draft should refer to the classical ND document.

CS: IPWAVE hackathon project used packet framing of 6lo for OCB packet.

Dorothy Stanley (DS): OCB document should be done with the classical ND,
  and it will be improved later by IPWAVE hackathon projects.

CB: The way forward is for the OCB document proposes basic ND but
  document the shortcomings, leaving "enhanced" ND for a separate
  work.  The OCB document will reflect Pascal's comments and it will
  move forward.     

AP: Comments from the 6man WG were circulated without improvement.

SK: The authors need to clarify the text with questions from reviewers
  even though the implementation shows the correct mechanism of IPv6
  over OCB.

AP: Let's make progress through IESG for RFC publication.

AP: I will try to improve security considerations; however, the security
  is not easy to solve.

SK: The authors need to specify possible problems and say how to
  mitigate them.

AP: It is very hard to address all security problems in this document.

DS: Security part can refer to IEEE 1609.2 security.

SG: What security aspects are discussed such as link layer and
  application layer?

SK: We need to document security issues.

William Whyte (WW): There are many ETSI documents about security issues
  and threat models.  We can just point to them.

Tony Li (TL): Link layer security is out of our scope.  We don't have a
  decent security method in network layer yet.
   
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11:40 IP Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments (IPWAVE):  ... 20 min
      Problem Statement and Use Cases
          Presenter: Jaehoon Paul Jeong
          Draft: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-08
------------------------------------------------------------------------

PJ: I am one of the editors of this Problem Statement (PS) document.  I
  clarified key work items in this PS document, such as ND, mobility
  management, security and privacy.  I summarized the solutions, and
  talk about the link model.
This is vehicular network architecture.
A vehicle can configure its IP address through this multi-link model.
We need to provide Internet access using a global IP address.
We also suggest the multihop ND.
Mobility Management has two cases for seamless communicaiton and the
  timely data exchange between.
First case is PMIPv6 based mobility management.  Trajectory information
  allows mobility management to be done proactively.
DMM based can also be used.
Next step, wrap up this PS document.

CB: Have been all of the received comments been addressed?  You need to
  tell the reviewers how their comments were handled.  Please post to
  the mail list so that the reviewers can check if they think their
  comments have been addressed.

SG: Stick to the problem statement, not solution.

CB: The review from Sri was posted beginning of February, and then an
  updated draft was posted after the cutoff date for this meeting.  If
  the authors want to progress this document, responding to review
  cannot take that long, and for sure cannot be submitted after the
  cutoff.  Next revision has to be done well before Montreal meeting.

PJ: I will address further comments from the WG quickly.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
** Additional topics (time permitting)

12:00 IPv6 Vehicular Neighbor Discovery ......................... 15 min
         Presenter: Yiwen Chris Shen
         Draft: draft-jeong-ipwave-vehicular-neighbor-discovery-06
------------------------------------------------------------------------

CS mentioned that there is IPR related to this draft.
CS explained vehicular network architecture with vehicular link model.
Based on the network, vehicular neighbor discovery (VND) uses address
  registration for efficient address configuration and management.

SG: How does it handle MAC pseudonym? 

CS: We will address the pesudonym later.

WW: Coupling between network layer and transport layer should be
  considered for efficient pseudonym.

CS: Aquisition of prefix can be done to a vehicle far away from RSU
  via VANET.

Prefix and service discovery can be efficiently by VND with ND options.
Updates from -05 are specified such as shared prefix model.

CB: There cannot be any WG adoption on this (or any other document)
  without rechartering. And there will be no rechartering process until
  the two documents on the current charter are done. 

Erik Nordmark (EN): 6lowpan document is used. What is different from
  6lowpan?  What are missing from it?

SG: Need analysis before WG adoption.

AP: In procedure of address registration, does this VND override the
  classical ND?  Can a vehicle have multiple IP addresses?

SG: Does this draft consider internal IP addresses along with egress
  (or external) IP address?

TL: Is Private IP address space considered?

CS: This is related to mobility management.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
12:15  Urban Air Mobility Implications for IPWAVE   ............  10 min
          Presenter: Fred Templin
          Draft: draft-templin-ipwave-uam-its-00
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fred Templin (FT) explains the motivation and requirements of Urban Air
Mobility (UAM) in IPWAVE. UAM can use DSRC and C-V2X for communications.

PJ: This UAM can be considered as work item after rechartering.

SG: Is UAM proposed as IPWAVE work item or a requied work for your
  company?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
12:25  IEEE 1609.2/ETSI TS 103 097 certificates in TLS 1.3  ..... 10 min
------------------------------------------------------------------------

WW introduces TLS authentication using certificates in the format
  defined in ETSI ITS and IEEE WAVE.  The objective is to enable
  client/server authentication these certificates.  TLS WG has no
  interest, so WW proposes the work in IPWAVE WG.
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------
12:35  Mobility Management for IP-Based Vehicular Networks  ..... 10 min
          Presenter: Jaehoon Paul Jeong
          Draft: draft-jeong-ipwave-vehicular-mobility-management-00 
------------------------------------------------------------------------

PJ: This draft offers a vehicular mobility management scheme for IPv6
  vehicular networks that takes advantage of a vehicular multi-link
  subnet model.  With a vehicle's position, speed, direction, and
  trajectory, it can provide a moving vehicle with proactive and
  seamless handoff along its trajectory.

CB: There cannot be any WG adoption on this (or any other document)
  without rechartering. And there will be no rechartering process until
  the two documents on the current charter are done.

Someone suggested the review of RFC 4903, where Dave Thaler describes
  issues with multi-link subnets.