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Minutes IETF109: coinrg

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Meeting Minutes Computing in the Network Research Group (coinrg) RG Snapshot
Date and time 2020-11-19 05:00
Title Minutes IETF109: coinrg
State Active
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Last updated 2020-12-11

# COIN RG Meeting at IETF-109
* When: Thursday, Nov 19, 2020 @ 12:00am-14:00 UTC+6 Time - on-line meeting
* Meeting materials:
* Etherpad:
* Note taker: Jeffrey He

## Chairs presentation -- 10 minutes
* Administrivia, IPR and scope (Marie-Jose) -- clarification of scope
* Agenda bashing, Internet drafts, Milestones (Jeffrey) -- two drafts were
adopted as RG documents, announced on mailing list

## Presentations

### Sharon Barkai - IETF-LISP Virtual Routing for AI at the Edge -- 10 mins
Motivation to move AI to the edge: a service level agreement (SLA) often
requires sub-sec low latency, heavy load due to large volume of data,
regulation. Examined two production networks: (1) mobility networks of cars in
Auto use case (2) cyber case study Virtual routing methods: IP over UDP, LISP
Overlay(topological constraints, this is key for Ai case to reduce the data),
signal-free multicast(useful edge reduction to support many channels)
Q(Marie-Jose): how do you want this work to evolve in this group? A: start from
specific use cases, then generalize to a family of problems

### Dirk Kutscher - Directions for Computing in the Network -- 15 mins
Updates: currently working with app developers on new use cases beyond DC and
MEC ToDo list: terminology clarification; extent of packet processing;
discovery; who is the user ; result provenance, mobility; Applying Internet
principles to distributed computing AND employing distributed computing
principles for system design Exploring domain specific solutions, but not point
solutions, rather specilaized implementation under coin principles. Authors'
view: supporting distributed computing by leveraging networking concepts,
instead of building better pipes; enhancing TCP with new headers is not
promising, security model should be kept in mind; Future additions: more use
cases; taxonomy; not architecture or solution; Q(Eve): use cases? A: different
class of use cases; Q(Ike): A: useful split among drafts Comment(Phil Eardley):
not taxo, but also requirement A: more about collecting ideas, not mandate the
requirements; Mare-Jose: the common elements;

### Eve Schooler - Data Discovery and discussion -- 10 mins
The problem: data are scattered with the compute; how to locate data in an open
standardized way; What is data: statistics, location, health etc; bag of bits;
meta-data; Data discovery is fundamental to COIN: all the input\ function\
output are related to data, and the place of data is important; Request RG
adoption for the first draft of three re data discovery; Q(Marie-jose): is
there other research on this? A: We are targeting data discovery in more
dynamic autonomous situations in contrast to orchestrated containers with
pre-configured and/or static data locations Q(Lars Eggets): a more general
comment. Wasting too much time to discuss whether to adopt a RG document. More
interesting is what kind of research this group wants to discuss; similarly, it
doesn't matter whether it is in the charter if people want to discuss it!  We
should focus on more on the technical content and it would be more beneficial
and lead to more Q&A. A(Marie-Jose): Although we are dominated by drafts this
meeting, we will target more research presentations in the interim meeting.
Q(Dirk Trossen): I wonder about the RG relevance (not RG adoption); data is
relevant to compute, but how about the "in network" part: how the "network" can
help in this problem.

### Ike Kunze - Current Work on the Use Cases -- 15 mins
open up for other use cases beyond intrustrial one.
Change the structure of the content;
use this document to collect the use cases in this central place, then point to
other documents for the details; use similar structure to describe different
use cases: motivation, definition and requirements, realization and research
questions; taxonomy to classify the use cases and find common building blocks;
welcome contributions with additional use cases; Q(Dirk Trossen): Besides the
use cases, taxonomy is also important and requires more contribution; emphasize
not only the "computing" but also the "in network" part. Researchers from UCL
may contribute on the use case. Marie-Jose: more than happy to help to
integrate my draft into this document.

### H. Asai - Separation of Data Path and Data Flow Sublayers in the Transport
Layer -- 10 mins Draft: New layering
architecture for distributed computing. The network is getting smarter with
QoS, middlebox, new distributed computing paradigms (pub/sub, edge computing,
in network computing). Idea: separate transport layer into two sublayers: data
path (stateless or per path states) and data flow (per flow states). Simple
case for stateful per packet in network computing:  the waypoint have policy to
route the packet so is stateful, the in network computing nodes don't have
state, just apply a program to packets. Stack: data flow is end to end without
in network computing nodes, data path have them as hops. More complex case: per
flow in network computing; computing(such as aggregation) on packets from
different flows; must be awre of flows; implement data flow protocols Q(Dirk
Kustcher): if computing happens on the payload, what is the security model for
data flow ? A: security function is in the data flow layer Q(??): if there is
computing at the middle of data flow layer, what is the expectation from end to
end application layer? not only security, but also the correctness issue? A:
application layer should take care of the service level integrity and
functionality Q(??) the application should at least be aware of the waypoint
etc? A: Yes. This draft focuses on the data plane. The control plane should
have to manage waypoint and service. The application layer should control
these. Q(Uma Chunduri): Are there any use cases not processing the payload? A:
no such use case in mind specifically. Maybe encryption. We are thiking, when
collecting data from IOT devices, the data needs to be aggregated.

### D. Trossen - Transport Protocol Issues of In-Network Computing Systems --
10 mins Draft: Updates:
addressing part, linked to service routing discussing in appcentres draft,
amended research questions; flow granularity, added short-term messages, error
control to messages while congestion control to endpoint relation; new section
on collective communication including short lived multipoint communication;
transport features, covering reliability and congestion control. Future plan:
link to other drafts in coin such as use case draft; ask for adoption as rg

### D. Trossen - In-Network Computing for App-Centric Micro-Services -- 10 mins
Plan to move use case section to new use cases draft.
Add a few new sub sections; references to 3GPP and edge computing in 5G,
service routing critical in L2 enviroment; contraint-based forwarding
decisions; extend the contraints more than load/latency, coordinating matching
operation in routers for service scheduling; Collective communication:
1:N/N:1/N:M, short lived, spontaneous formation; Future plan: move use cases to
updated use case draft, complete section 5, clearly link to other coin drafts;
ask for RG adoption.

### Ina Fink - Enhancing Security and Privacy with In-Network Computing -- 10
mins Draft: Updates:
In-network vulnerability patches as protection mechanism: define fine grain
rules and patches easy to distribute by automatic software updates. Current
research: in network policy enforcement; enhancing incident investigation by
efficient network monitoring.

### Philip Eardley - Piccolo Celtic Project -- 10 mins

Piccolo: "in network compute for 5G services", a new project; keen to
collaberate with coin group. Initial direction: joint optimization between
network, compute, storage in a reliable and scalable way. Network will provide
in network computing in a transparent way like today's processing packet in a
transparent way. Use cases and services: vision processing, future cars, smart
streetlights; and network as a platform. Vision processing: cameras capture
video and video processing is in carriers' platform for automatic detection;
Automotive use case: do correlation and analysis at the edge more efficiently
and faster than in the cloud.

## Future plans
* Interim meeting in early Feb, with a focus on Research (vs I-Ds) and Scope