Minutes IETF109: hrpc
minutes-109-hrpc-00

HRPC

 Agenda HRPC IETF 109

# Welcome and introduction (~0 minutes)

        Scribe, Note takers  Jonathan Heyland, Avri
        Agenda Review
        Research Group status

# Talk: Kim Crayton (30 minutes)

        "The internet IS political"

There was not discussion, but the talk may be refered to later in the meeting
when we discuss draft-political

# Update: Guidelines draft and short presentations from reviewers (20 minutes)

        draft-irtf-hrpc-guidelines, Gurshabad Grover

# Updates: Research group drafts (40 minutes)

        draft-irtf-hrpc-association, Mallory Knodel

Just redrafted and updated.
Revised Research Question
Needs some polishing, pussible conclusion and a copy edit. Need more
contribution and particpation.

Benjamin, attempt to predict is very difficult. principles for prediction even
harder Focus on reactive principles.

Avri Doria: Thanks for the effort, getting close.

Christinan Huitema: We should consider resource-consumption. It is easier to
consume from a server than from P2P networks, therefore we are inherently
handing control of platforms over to server operators by default.

Niels ten Oever: This also interacts with accessability and access, should we
have a new section, or merge with a freedom of assembly?

Mallory Knodel: The manner of assembly may be defined by the plaform being
used. So maybe we need to discuss the _quality_ of the assembly possible.

Dan Harkins: Are there any prescriptive recommendations you could make? For
example, require deniability in key yexchanges

Mallory Knodel: We want to be referencable, but I don't think we are able to be
prescriptive.

Avri: We can suggestions you can ask yourrself, but I don't think we can be
prescriptive.

Mike English: Frame as tradeoffs rather than prescriptions. Many values and
principles are in conflict, and may not easily be resolved with technical
prescriptions. +1 to Ben Schwartz, we should work on improving our reactions to
issues that arise.

Mallory Knodel: +1 to Mike, we can focus on tensions and trade-offs. That's a
very human rights thing. We should check we have done this for each section.
Please open issues or PRs on our github.

Dan Harkins: The document should answer: What is it about a protocol that makes
it "good" for association versus "bad".

## Guidelines:

Neils: We think we're nearly ready for last call. What do people think?
Mallory: What kind of feedback do you need now?
Neils: Is it ready to go? We think we have covered every thread on the mailing
list. Avri: The document is ready for last call.

## draft-political

Niels: Use the same process as draft-association

Avri: perhaps add content related to the Covenant on Civil and political rights

# AOB

        TBD