Minutes IETF111: madinas
minutes-111-madinas-00

Meeting Minutes MAC Address Device Identification for Network and Application Services (madinas) WG
Title Minutes IETF111: madinas
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Last updated 2021-07-29

Meeting Minutes
minutes-111-madinas

MADINAS WG-forming BoF at IETF 111
Wednesday, July 28, 2021 19:00-21:00  (UTC) Session I

Chairs: Juan-Carlos Zúñiga, Carlos J. Bernardos
Chat log: [1] https://jabber.ietf.org/jabber/logs/madinas/2021-07-28.html
Video recording: https://youtu.be/STz56QG2Dv4

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Welcome, Scope & Agenda Review (BoF Chairs) -- 15 mins
(19:00)
Juan-Carlos Zúñiga, Sigfox, j.c.zuniga@ieee.org
Carlos J. Bernardos, Universidad Carlos III de Madrid, cjbc@it.uc3m.es
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Juan-Carlos Zúñiga (JCZ) introduces the meeting, bashing the agenda,
remembering IETF meeting rules and objectives of a WG-forming BoF and
in particular of MADINAS.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Background -- 30 mins
(19:15)

Background and status about MAC address randomization work at the IETF 
- Amelia Andersdotter (5 mins)
Background and status about MAC address randomization work at the IEEE 802 
- Jerome Henry (CISCO) (10 mins)
Background and status about MAC address randomization work at the Wireless
Broadband Alliance 
- Tim Twell (10 mins)
Clarification Q&A (5 mins)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amelia Andersdotter (AA) presents the IETF activity related to privacy and MAC
address randomization.

Jerome Henry (JH) presents the IEEE activity related to privacy and MAC address
randomization; there's 802 (under 802.1) and then there's 802.11 work. 802E-2020
provides considerations / practice suggestions.
Lead to 2 subgroups.
* 802.11bh observes the consequences of recommendation - which services may
break. 
* 802.11bi: improve privacy

Tim Twell (TT) presents the WBA activity related to privacy and MAC address
randomization.

Tim Cappalli (TC): Why SAE is not being mentioned? There are already solutions.
JCZ: The purpose of this WG would be to identify problems and solutions, as well
as potential gaps. If solutions are sufficient, we can simpy highlight them. If
they are not, we can then see what needs to be done and where (which SDO).

There is additional discussion in parallel in the chat [1].

------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Use cases and Problem statement -- 25 mins
(19:45)

Randomized and Changing MAC Address Use Cases, Jerome Henry (CISCO) (15 mins)
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-henry-madinas-framework/
Clarification Q&A (10 mins)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

JH presents; user vs. devices. Analyze what needs to be identified
JH: SAE is often being mentioned at IEEE 802.11bi

There is additional discussion in parallel in the chat [1].

------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Charter discussion (BoF Chairs w/AD Support) -- 35 mins
(20:10)
------------------------------------------------------------------------

JCZ presents the current version of the proposed charter, which has been
discussed on the MADINAS mailing list. The charter is divided in Introductory
part, Scope, Timeframe and inter-SDO coordination, and, Deliverables.

Roman Danyliw (RD) ask some clarification questions, e.g., about intended work
to be done, scope of the liaisons with other SDOs...

There are some comments on the Deliverables, pointing out that there might be
some replication on the first two deliverables, as currently written. It is
agreed to review this part to make it clearer.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Polls and Next Steps (BoF Chairs w/AD Support) -- 15 mins
(20:45)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chairs make the following questions:

* Does the community think that the problem statement is clear, well-scoped,
solvable, and useful to solve?

  RAISE HAND: 23
  DO NOT RAISE HAND: 7

* Does the community think that the problem statement is unclear, not
well-scoped, unsolvable, or unuseful to solve?

  RAISE HAND: 7
  DO NOT RAISE HAND: 29

* Who is willing to review/author documents (or comment on the mailing list)?
Please raise your hand if you are willing to.

  RAISE HAND: 23
  DO NOT RAISE HAND: 8

* Is there support to form a WG with the following charter? Please, "raise hand"
if you support forming a WG with current charter. "Do not raise hand" if you
don't support forming a WG.

A clarification question is done by Dave Thaler (DT) regarding what "following
charter/current charter" means. It is clarified that it means an amended
charter, addressing the received comments.

  RAISE HAND: 30
  DO NOT RAISE HAND: 4