IAB Open Meeting, IETF 116

March 30, 2023, 15:00 - 16:00 JST

Chairs: Mirja Kühlewind, Wes Hardaker

Welcome and Status Update (Mirja Kühlewind/Wes Hardaker)

• Slides: Introduction

Document Updates

• Approved: draft-iab-path-signals-collaboration: Considerations on
  Application - Network Collaboration Using Path Signals
• Approved: draft-iab-protocol-maintenance-12: Maintaining Robust
  Protocols (new title and rework)
• Adopted: draft-iab-privacy-partitioning-01: Partitioning as an
  Architecture for Privacy (newly revised)
• Under adoption consideration:
  draft-arkko-iab-data-minimization-principle-04: Data minimization
  among protocol participants (revision expected)
• NEW: draft-iab-m-ten-workshop-00: Report from the IAB workshop on
  Management Techniques in Encrypted Networks (M-TEN)
• NEW: draft-iab-ws-environmental-impacts-report-01: Report from the
  IAB Workshop on Environmental Impact of Internet Applications and
  Systems, 2022

Program Updates

• Evolvability, Deployability, & Maintainability (EDM) Program
• Workshops
• Liaison Updates

BBF Liaison Update (David Sinicrope)

• Slides: IETF-BBF Liaison Relationship Overview and Update

Brian Trammell: Thank you for the 2+ decades of service here. I was
always impressed with how this relationship works. Have you thought
about who the new Dave will be? Because I don't think you want to do
this for the next 40 years.

David Sinicrope: This is something we've been thinking about, yes.

Wes Hardaker: Speaking with my liaison coordinator hat on, we are always
looking for more people to follow up.

Energy Productivity x00% for carbon neutral with Public Core of the Internet (Hiroshi Esaki, University of Tokyo)

• Slides: Energy Productivity x00% for carbon neutral with Public
  Core of the Internet

Report: IAB on Environmental Impact of Internet Applications and Systems (e-impact) (Jari Arkko)

• Slides: E-Impact Workshop

Open Mic

Jari Arkko: What can the IETF do, and what are the next steps to move
this energy stuff forward?

Wes Hardaker: We've had many discussions about the travel aspects, but
the implications of protocols on this have been less discussed.

Brian Trammell: I was sad to not be able to participate in the workshop.
It seems to me that a lot of the problem here is the Venn diagram of
what to optimize for. Anything where we talk about bringing energy
efficiency or not wanting to create e-waste with the upgrade cycle
impled by the growth of protocols. Lots of questions, lots of expansion
of the expansion space (I think that's where we are right now). I think
this is something the IETF should be considering in terms of protocol
development. This is important to consider, the impacts of the physical
infrastructure that is implied by the protocol. I think what I'm asking
for is an IAB program in this space.

Jari Arkko: We also had a side meeting right before this to talk exactly
about this. We are exanding and this space is huge and maybe now it's
time to narrow down on the short-term achieveable things. One constraint
here is that there are probably things in many areas. It could be
multiple WGs.

Brian Trammell: And the role of the IAB here could be as a coordinator
of all these activities.

Mirja Kühlewind: The IAB would identify the things the IETF can do in
this space and then hand them off.

Hiroshi Esaki: The architecture concept of the Internet is applied to
the industry.

Rich Salz: As someone who helps spec protocols, a simple question that
might be unanswerable is, how much does it cost to compute something
here, versus sending it over there? I think it would be an interesting
set of tradeoffs. There might be CPU costs, and getting some informed
data on how to make those tradeoffs could eb important.

Pete Resnick: To air what was said in the chat, 3-D printing is probably
cheaper than moving the things around, but what are the implications of
moving the raw materials around for that? Knobs to turn where one might
change the latency and throughput a lot, and the calculations get very
complex very fast. It seems really hard to calculate this.

Jari Arkko: One optimistic view on this: it's not that we always degrade
the other parameters by making energy efficiency better.

Hiroshi Esaki: We want to optimize the network.

David Somers-Harris: Has there been any analysis on the ROI on the
supply chain issues, how vendors manufacture things, and of course the
protocols could expose thses things? This is how much benefit the IETF
could come about through protocol work, and we need collaboration with
other standards bodies.

Jari Arkko: I don't think there is a full analysis anywhere. There are
lots of tradeoffs and connections here.

Suresh Krishnan: Multicast came up with something that could save
energy, but in other use cases it can waste energy. How can we help
people look at the sustainability costs of the decisions they are
making. There is a lot more content on the papers that is in the report,
so it would be good if people would take a look.

Wes Hardaker: Thank you to our speakers, and we will see you at IETF
117!