IETF 120 6man

Tuesday, 23 July 2024, 13:00-15:00 PDT (UTC-7)
Room: Regency C/D

Chairs: Bob Hinden, Jen Linkova, Ole Trøan

Minute taker: Darren Dukes
Jabber Scribe: None

Jabber Room: 6man@jabber.ietf.org

Meetecho (Full Client):
https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/ietf120/?session=33020

Meetecho (Onsite Tool):
https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/onsite120/?session=33020

Agenda

Introduction, Agenda Review, and Document Status , Chairs, 10 min.

++Working Group Drafts++

Prioritizing known-local IPv6 ULAs through address selection policy, draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update , Tim Chown, 15 min.

SNAC Router Flag in ICMPv6 Router Advertisement Messages, draft-ietf-6man-snac-router-ra-flag , Ted Lemon, 10 min.

Signalling DHCPv6 Prefix Delegation Availability to Hosts, draft-ietf-6man-pio-pflag , Lorenzo Colitti, 15 min.

Deprecation of The IPv6 Router Alert Option, draft-ietf-6man-deprecate-router-alert , Ron Bonica, 10 min.

Entering IPv6 Zone Identifiers into User Interfaces, draft-ietf-6man-zone-ui , Brian Carpenter, 15 min.

++Active Individual Drafts++

IPv6 Node Requirements, draft-clw-6man-rfc8504-bis , Tim Chown, 15 min

++If Time Allows++

Internet Control Message Protocol (ICMPv6) Loopback, draft-mcb-6man-icmpv6-loopback , Tal Mizrahi, 5 min.

LOOPBACK6: A Utility For Detecting IPv6 Extension Header Changes, draft-he-6man-icmpv6-extensions-ipv6-ext-header , Ron Bonica, 5 min.

IPv6 Addresses for Ad Hoc Networks, draft-templin-6man-mla , Fred L. Templin, 5 min.

Clarification of IPv6 Address Assignment Policy, draft-carpenter-6man-addr-assign , Brian Carpenter, 5 min.

SLAAC Prefixes with Variable Interface ID (IID), draft-mishra-6man-variable-iids , Gyan Mishra, 5 min.

Introduction, Agenda Review, and Document Status , Chairs

• No RFCs published.
• Three drafts approved by the IESG and in the RFC editor queue
  awaiting publication (see datatracker).
• Reminder to collaborating working group members: please bring
  content to 6man once there is some consensus in the source working
  group

Working Group Drafts

Prioritizing known-local IPv6 ULAs through address selection policy, draft-ietf-6man-rfc6724-update , Tim Chown, 15 min.

• Presented updates in -09

• Open questions before last call:

  • Multiple questions were presented with list consensus (see
    presentation)

• Authors are close to closing open questions

• Authors ask for more conversation around open questions on the list.

• Lorenzo:

  • Has implemented draft.
  • The 8 step algorithm was complex, can it be simplified?
    • Jenn noted her agreement.

• Some discussion Lorenzo and Tim around fc00::/8 vs fd00::/8

  • Bob suggests treating all ULAs the same in this draft.
    • Suresh K noted his agreement.

• Eric K

  • Asked about policies via specification vs policy via
    administration
  • Suggests to not overspecify fc00::/8 and fd00::/8

• Updates are expected to the document.

SNAC Router Flag in ICMPv6 Router Advertisement Messages, draft-ietf-6man-snac-router-utAC usecase.

• Need a way to differentiate RA's from SNAC routers vs infra routers.

• Ask for early allocation of the flag

  • implementations are deployed squatting on other flag bits.
  • early allocation is asked
  • WG last call

• Lorenzo suggested Must be set to zero by non stub routers

  • Tim Winters agrees

• David Farmer

  • Asked about RA guard
  • Ted SNAC RAs are filtered with RA guard so this draft does not
    affect RA guard.

• Tim Winters

  • What happens when a SNAC router is not a SNAC router?
  • Ted - can be noted in SNAC draft

• Phillip Tiesel

  • What happens if a configurable router is also a SNAC router?
  • Ted - The SNAC draft notes this

Signalling DHCPv6 Prefix Delegation Availability to Hosts, draft-ietf-6man-pio-pflag , Lorenzo Colitti, 15 min.

• Title changed

• Goal - signal the network supports PD per device.

  • A flag signals this, reasons given in presentation

• WG LC

  • Some recent discussion on the list
  • Authors think discussion was on deployment model, not the
    protocol
  • Protocol spec has not changed
  • Reviewed some issues discussed - see slides.

• Closing WGLC?

  • Request early allocation is next.

• Suresh

  • can router turn this off and on? Think about it and write an
    update

• Tom

  • this is necessary, the alternative is more NAT66

• Erik K, Nick

  • support the work, necessary

• Tim Chown

  • How many flags are left? 4.

• Ole

  • In favor of solving network extension problem, but the draft
    leaves too many corner cases unresolved.
  • Note we cannot leave network extensions only to large enterprise
    issues.
  • Notes we should not split documents among working groups.
  • Notes a corner case on router transition to PD capable.
  • Ole has sent them to the list.
  • Lorenzo disputed some concerns are answered on the list, but
    there may be some disconnect some how
  • Ole committed to send questions to the list for resolution.

• Erik K

  • yes consider corner cases - some were stated
  • reminds participants to discuss issues to resolution

• Suresh K

  • Suggests throw issues in the issue tracker
  • Ole notes they are on the 6man tracker
    https://github.com/ietf-6man/pio-pflag/issues

• Bob

  • Notes the WG appears close to consensus, but will look and
    determine next actions.

Deprecation of The IPv6 Router Alert Option, draft-ietf-6man-deprecate-router-alert , Ron Bonica, 10 min.

• Summary

  • Protocols may continue to use the option
  • Future protocols must not use the Router Alert option

• Motivation was restated

• Can Router Alert option be replaced by other means?

  • Ron gave two examples and their alternatives (see slides)

• David

  • notes a snooping use case is missing from the draft
  • Ron notes alternates exist

• Eric V

  • clarified the examples (RSVP-TE & MLDv2) were only examples not
    necessary to implement

• Tim notes depricate was confusing with existing uses persisting

  • Bob notes this is normal

• Suresh

  • Some older HW may only have RA as the means of punting to slow
    path
  • Should we talk to some vendors?
  • Ron and Suresh to followup offline.

• Bob

  • Question for the list - how do you do MLD without router alert?
  • Erik K notes RFC3810bis draft may do this?

Entering IPv6 Zone Identifiers into User Interfaces, draft-ietf-6man-zone-ui , Brian Carpenter, 15 min.

• Brian notes failure to modify syntax of URI for local addresses

  • notes IESG discusses

• Reminded the WG of the only technical content

  • A UI should be able to identify link local address and zone
    identifier (paraphrased - see slides)

• Brian notes main changes during adoption call

• Should this be a formal update to RFC4007?

  • Authors think no

• Bill Fenner

  • Notes the problem is hard
  • Is there any point to this if it doesn't apply to web browsers?
  • Brian: yes, there are use cases that are not web browsers.
  • Brian believes this will spur browsers to consider change.

• Erik K

  • should we socialize it with browser folks now? When WGLC is done
    Erik will.

• Discussion with Lorenzo and Brian regarding specification of the
  link local text format

• Doug M - is there a difference between a browser and any other app?

  • Difference is internally an IPv6 addr is a zone ID plus 128bit
    addr.
  • Doug - is a web browser app well defined?... discussion ensued.

• David Farmer

  • Let IESG decide if there should be an update
  • LL addrs does not need to have an interface ID.
  • If the correct default zone is built then zone IDs are not
    needed
  • David proposes fixing zone identifiers.
  • David indicates this work does provide guidance to applications
    that ignored the problem.

Active Individual Drafts

IPv6 Node Requirements, draft-clw-6man-rfc8504-bis , Tim Chown, 15 min

• initial -00 is published with minor edits to to RFC8504
• Tim asked for input from WG on other edits that may influence this
  work.
• Noted things that can be added/removed - it was a big list.

• Lorenzo:

  • Notes requirements on v6 nodes supporting v4

• Tim Winters

  • feedback that v6only section is useful

• Eric V

  • Continue the work, re DHCPv4 option 108, this is OK in a
    specific section

• Tom Hill

  • supports the work
  • May want to add SR6

• Jen L

  • What a host OS should do for APIs that render CLIs?

• Gyan Mishra

  • Should v4 as a service be added and the like?
  • Authors: OK, lets consider that.

If Time Allows

Internet Control Message Protocol (ICMPv6) Loopback, draft-mcb-6man-icmpv6-loopback , Tal Mizrahi, 5 min.

• Described the technical aspects of the draft
• Asked for feedback and whether there is support for adoption.

LOOPBACK6: A Utility For Detecting IPv6 Extension Header Changes, draft-he-6man-icmpv6-extensions-ipv6-ext-header , Ron Bonica, 5 min.

• A means of providing extension headers in the ICMP message
• allows the receiver to determine if EH's have been modified on the
  path
• Ron suggest his and Tal's draft get merged.
• David made a technical suggestion for the merged draft and packet
  sizes - Ron appeared amenable.

IPv6 Addresses for Ad Hoc Networks, draft-templin-6man-mla , Fred L. Templin, 5 min.

• Fred noted an issue with addressing in Ad Hoc Networks
• Defines new addresses as Multicast local addresses
• Fred provided address prefixes for these new addresses.
• Jen - looking for comments on the list.

Clarification of IPv6 Address Assignment Policy, draft-carpenter-6man-addr-assign , Brian Carpenter, 5 min.

• Brian notes problems in address assignment policy
• Brian proposes a new BPC to identify IETF review required for new
  assignment (not just IESG and IANA).

SLAAC Prefixes with Variable Interface ID (IID), draft-mishra-6man-variable-iids , Gyan Mishra, 5 min.

• outlined the case for variable iid space
• Bob encouraged anyone interested to listen to this in V6OPS session
  on Thursday morning.