Minutes IETF122: moq
minutes-122-moq-00

IETF 122 - MoQ WG

Monday (2025-03-17)

Agenda

Administrivia - 15 min
Changes since IETF 121 (draft-07) Ian - 15 min
Reducing time to first byte (Ian/Cullen) - 30 min
Track Alias (Alan) - 30 min

If time permits:

• QLOG
• MoQT Issues

Notes

Note takers: Daniel Fay, Mathis Engelbart

Adminstrativia

Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/122/materials/slides-122-moq-chair-slides-03

The WG chairs (Martin, Magnus, Alan) reminded everyone of the Note Well and Note Really Well. The presented the planned agenda and if there was any changes.

Review of documents

• Call for consensus of MoQT draft 10 ends 2 April
• Design issues created afterwards should be based on implementation/interop experience.
• The Warp draft is adopted and have been submitted in WG version.
• Call for adoption of LOC draft runs until the 23 of March.

The chairs also noted that Stuart Cheshire will talk about draft-cheshire-sbm-00 in TSVWG and TCPM and this is relevant also for MoQ.

Changes since draft 7 – Ian Swett

Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/122/materials/slides-122-moq-moqt-changes-since-ietf121-00

Ian reviewed the significant number of changes that has been incorporated into MOQT draft since -07. See slides here. This include a restructuring of the sections.

Publish and Subscribe tracks in a namespace

Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/122/materials/slides-122-moq-publish-and-subscribe-to-tracks-in-a-namespace-00

Ian Sweet and Cullen Jennings jointly presented the slides. This include a proposal for a set of components to enable more efficient handling of the initial publish of a track name. These components are:

1. Add PUBLISH, a verb sent by the publisher very similar to SUBSCRIBE.
2. Variant of Alan’s Track Alias proposal
3. Wildcard Subscribe to a Namespace

The WG asked numerous questions about the proposal and how it improves the handling of initial media for tracks.

The conclusion from the discussion is that Ian and Cullen will make two PRs:

• One for wildcard subscribe
• One for publish and changing subscribe/publish IDs

Track Alias

Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/122/materials/slides-122-moq-track-alias-00

Alan skipped over most of the slides as the previous proposal covered most of the issues. What may still be an issue after those changes is what ALIAS_ACK attempts to address. Will await proposal for those changes before writing a proposal PR.

MoQT QLog

Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/122/materials/slides-122-moq-moqt-qlog-00

Lucas Pardue presented the progress that has been done with MoQ Qlog https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-pardue-moq-qlog-moq-events/ which include a scheme proposal. There are also both MoQT implementations that generate logs, as well as some parsing capability. The authors thinks the ground work is now done.

No current action, will revisit adoption question in the future.

Thursday (2025-03-20)

Agenda

Administrivia/Interim Update/Interop report - 15 min
LOC update, call for Adoption? (Mo/chairs) - 15 min
AUTH PR (Will) - 30 min

Notes

Note taker: Daniel Fay

Adminstrivia

Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/122/materials/slides-122-moq-chair-slides-session-2-01

Interim Update

Virtual interims - 2, 16, 30 April, all 1600 UTC

Hybrid May 5, interop, May 6-7 issues. Meeting will be in Stockholm, Sweden. If you need a letter of invitation for the Sweden interim let the chairs know as soon as possible.

Interop Report

About 6 people. Every was draft 8 or above, 4 were 10. Lots of new implementations with control with meetecho, mocecho, and cisco. Suhas has video interop over meetecho - close on moxygen, Matt Joras has media streaming app, only run on moxygen. More logging and qlog, meetecho full support and a few others have support. Got a bit with moq-files serialization draft.

LOC Update

Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/122/materials/slides-122-moq-loc-00

LOC draft call for adoption is ongoing for a few more days, voice any additional concerns on mailing list before close.

Magnus raised issue of the W3C registry may not be easy for everyone to get a new codec added to it.

Show of hands:
How many have read recent LOC draft
Yes: 10
No: 16
No opinion: 0

Should the LOC draft be adopted by WG
Yes: 21
No: 0
No opinion: 6

The chairs declared strong support from the meeting on adopting. Will declare result when the feedback period ends on the 23rd of March.

Metadata location in MoQ Objects

Issues raised:

• Putting LOC info in payload may have problems with E2E encryption
• Some extensions may leak information if out of encrypted payload
• Follow up (Mo): Will open issue for further discussion

Action item (Mo): When adopted submit current version as draft 00, and make updates and submit as version 01. Draft will also move to WG github organisation: https://github.com/moq-wg

AUTH for MoQT

Slides: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/122/materials/slides-122-moq-sessb-auth-for-moqt-ietf-122-v1-00

Initial draft following Denver: https://github.com/wilaw/CAT-4-MOQT/

Need to create new CWT claim

• Propose creating claim type “moqt” (details in slides)

Discussion

• Chris Lemmons: Wrapper option may be to non-performant, could use both
• Cullen: Concern that connections may be extremely long running and require continuous re-evaluation of tokens over time, through IP changes, etc.
• Suhas: Should consider revocation process. Prefer separate tokens over composite claims
• Martin (Chair): Clarify position of auth specification in relation to MoQT draft
• Will: This should be a defined option, encouraged but not mandated in spec. For interoperable relays, may need to require minimum support at relay level
• Mo: Can name/namespace be serialized in token?

Proposal is not ready for adoption yet, please visit github and file/view issues

Chair Announcement

Alan will be stepping down as chair (#sad) and joining Ian as co-editor of MoQT.