Minutes for INTAREA at IETF-93
minutes-93-intarea-2

intarea WG
IETF 93

Chairs:
Suresh Krishnan
Juan-Carlos Zúñiga

Minute Takers:
Ian Farrer
Ole Troan

1. Agenda Bashing, WG & Document Status (Chairs) 5 minutes

David Black - Joe touch is working on a rev of the tunnels
draft. It should be back soon

Suresh Krishnan (providing context) - This was a working group draft 4
years ago. It had expired. Joe is now updating it.

2. Current Hostname Practice Considered Harmful, Christian Huitema
   15 minutes
   draft-huitema-privsec-harmfulname-00

Dave Thaler - The intearea picking this up would be preferable to the
IAB

Erik Nordmark - I agree. The IAB can help.

Dave Thaler - There might be cases with non IETF protcols. The IAB could
direct attention to this.

Suresh - Is there stuff that is more than Intarea here? Is this the
right scope?

Dave Thaler - My opinion - this is the right place for the guidance. Other
WGs may have to do their own scrub and identify

Lee Howard - I like this document. 1 comment - NAT prevents leakage
made me think of a doc that I've brought to Ops. It's appropriate to
bring here as well. There should be a cross ref between these docs.

Suresh - We'll take it up on the mailing list.

3. Tunnel MTU considerations, Fred Templin
   10 minutes
   draft-templin-aerolink-58 Section 3.13

David Black - Packet too big for nested tunnels. Eventually you run out of
space and you can't encap.

Fred Templin - nested tunnels is something you have to
concern yourself with. With 1280 you still have space for
nesting.

Erik Nordmark - When I talked about VXlan in Dallas, the LISP folks
said that there are routers that don't support this and only include
8-bytes of the packet in the ICMP error. When you deploy, you migh
trun into issues in the real world.  Ive also seen cases wehn the
source of the tunnel is anycast. In this cases, the icmp error goes
back to one of the, but it might not be the right one. There's other
issues in practice.

4. Encapsulating IP in UDP, Xiaohu Xu
   10 minutes
   draft-xu-intarea-ip-in-udp

Not presented as presenter did not send slides.

5. Dynamic GRE Tunnel, Sheng Jiang
   10 minutes
   draft-jiang-intarea-dynamic-gre

Ron Bonica - There's a similar draft in i2r where they use BGP. is
there any parts that are common so that you can abstract them out

Sheng - I'll have a look

Lee Howard - Do we really need new DHCPv4 options?

Sheng - we have operators that are requesting this. If operators are
willing to get rid of the v4 part, then fine.

Suresh - To the mailing list.

6. MAC Randomization Implementation Experience, Christian Huitema 
   10 minutes
   (No draft)

Juan Carlos Zuniga - How long do you take to pick a MAC address in
probing mode?

Christian - It will be some random number

Dan Harkins - When you probe, is it directed or broadcast

Christian - Broadcast, by default. If the user connects to a hidden
SSID, then it's probiing for that SSID

Dan Harkins - if it is in the same SSID, then when I go to the coffee
shop I will have the same AMC address

Christian - Change it every day

Dan Harkins - Has there been large test

Christian - Yes

Dan Harkins - No problems

Lorenzo Collitti - Is it looking at the MAC address of the probe?

Dan Harkins - In our test we fixed mac and probe and it didnt' work

Lorenzo Collitti - in v6ops we worry about collisions in 64 bits. What
are you doing about the risk ofcollisions in 48 bits?

Lorenzo Collitti - So its, never going to happen, not going to worry?

Christian - All MACs are cryptographiclly generated. If there's a
collision, you delete the network and try again

Fred Templin - There needs to be some work on the chance of a
collision

Juan Carlos Zuniga - When you're randomizing, we had a case similar to
the one Dan described. If your MAC address shows up and has the same
pattern of movements, then it can be collated by the pattern even if
the MAC address changes.

Christian - We didn't want to do something complicated in the NIC

Dan Harkins - When people build networks, they don't have that many users
on a subnet. With 2k users, collision chance is 1 in 35 billion. Worry
about collision is overblown.