Minutes for CLUE at interim-2013-clue-2
minutes-interim-2013-clue-2-2

IETF CLUE WG Interim meeting, June 25, 2013

Participants:
------------
Mary Barnes
Paul Kyzivat
Christer Holmberg
Cullen Jennings
Dan Romascanu
Emil Ivov
Gonzalo Camarillo
John Leslie
Jonathan Lennox
Keith Drage
Mark Duckworth
Rob Hansen
Roberta Presta
Roni Even
Simon Romano
Stephan Wenger

Recording:
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https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/ldr.php?AT=pb&SP=MC&rID=13563457&rKey=d27e3dec5e09149a

Notes by: Mary and Paul
-----------------------

Summary:
---------
The objective of the meeting was to review the current WG status, review the
updates and open issues around the framework, and focus on the signaling
solution

Current Status:
===============
-  Roni and Jonathan are working on an MMUSIC document related to the RTP
mapping. [Note - document has been submitted since the interim:
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-even-mmusic-application-token/ ]

- Use Cases: document is deemed ready for WGLC.  Action: chairs start a 1 week
WGLC.

- Data model: has been kept updated to reflect FW.  Should be ready for
consideration as a WG document.  Action: Chairs.  Start a one week review
period.

Framework:
===========

- Switched Captures:  The primary discussion was with regards to
draft-duckworth-clue-switching-example-00 (noting that this is just one
example).

Paul pointed out that this highlights important issues: how receiver decides
how many of the advertised scenes it needs, how an MCU assigns coordinates in
its virtual scenes.

For the example with multiple scenes, priorities can be used by receiver to
decide what to get if it can’t take all. But we have no way for the receiver to
decide which captures represent the site of the current talker.

Discussion of one-scene vs. multiple-scenes for describing spatial
relationships. No conclusions. Some thought single scene, with coordinates
showing the intended layout would work.

Action: Mark to bring up the specific issues on the list.

- Other open issues:
-- Roles: Christian still has an outstanding action to post a document
evaluating the various options that were discussed on the mailing list. Action:
Christian submit the document no later than July 15th, 2013. Note: this is
tracked by Ticket #32 -- Update examples section. Action: authors to do this in
next version.  New ticket #34. -- Ensure Framework and Data model terminology
are consistent. New ticket #35 -- Cleanup encoding parameters for pixels/sec
(computational complexity) - these should be independent of codec.  Action:
discuss on the mailing list - need WG feedback.  New Ticket #36. -- #20:
Rejecting configure. As noted in May 21st interim, this needs to be mentioned
in Framework, but details belong in the solution document. -- #25:
Advertisements (complete or not).  Action: Christian needs to get out a
proposal within two weeks [Note: one week from time of the publication of these
notes.] -- Security section needs to be completed. Action: Mary work with Mark
once the security details for requirements document are detailed.  New ticket
#33.

Signaling/solution:
====================
- Paul noted the lack of progress and input for this document:
--  While Paul has folded Rob's proposal (from the May 21st interim) into the
kyzivat-clue-signaling document, it's not yet thoroughly integrated and Rob
needs to sanity check it.  Action: Rob to do this before July 15th document
cutoff. -- Paul has added a schema for the CLUE messages

- Folks agreed to provide a detailed review of what's there now: Christer, Rob,
Mark and Mary.

- Discussion of who will populate which sections:
1) Approach to versioning/options/extensions.  Assignee: ?
2) Approach to message ack/nak/error reporting  Assignee: ?
3) Approach to stand-alone messages or deltas: Assignee: ?
4) Elaboration of message sequencing. Note: This is important upfront. This may
be ready for call for consensus. 5) Mgt of CLUE channel lifetime & error
handling.  Assignee: ? 6) Review/refinement/detailing of msg syntax. Assignee:
? 7) Decision on encodings: SDP or ADV.  Assignee: Rob 8) Decision on relation
of clue msgs & SDP.  Assignee: Rob 9) Legacy mode. Assignee: Christer 10)
Update of examples/call flows Assignee: ?

Action: Mary to pull out topics for which there appears to be consensus and
post to list for confirmation.

- General Discussion:
Simon is concerned that there is little energy on this. In particular he thinks
this works best if people are trying to implement this, and feeding back based
on implementation experience. He can’t do telepresence right now in his
company, but he wants to know that some are doing this. He is concerned that we
are developing something that nobody is interested in implementing.

Cullen says Cisco is concerned with speed of progress, and how much incremental
value does this provide relative to what they have today. He suggests sitting
down in Berlin, at dinner or whatever, to discuss how to refocus in a relevant
way.

Way Forward:
=============
- Actions above to be addressed.
- If we don't have enough additional content or proposals for the signaling
solution and updates to the framework, we will not need our WG slots in Berlin.