Minutes for CLUE at interim-2014-clue-2

Meeting Minutes ControLling mUltiple streams for tElepresence (clue) WG
Title Minutes for CLUE at interim-2014-clue-2
State Active
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Last updated 2014-06-06

Meeting Minutes

IETF CLUE WG Virtual Interim meeting
May 29, 2014
15:00-17:00 Central US

Chaired by Mary Barnes and Paul Kyzivat

Alissa Cooper
Keith Drage
Mark Duckworth
Roni Even
Christian Groves
Rob Hansen
Christer Holmberg
Jonathan Lennox
John Leslie
Matt Ryan

Minutes by Mary Barnes with consensus/actions summarized by Christer Holmberg.


The objective of the meeting was to review the current WG status, focusing
discussion on issue resolution and details of the signaling solution.  The
discussions and actions are summarized below, followed by Christer's notes.

Status Review:

- Use Cases: Published as RFC 7205.

- Requirements: In AUTH48.

- Framework:  The audio issue(s) that has been discussed on the mailing list
and at the May xx design team meeting is the primary issue whose resolution
could impact the framework. The issue with regards to consistency with data
model will remain open until the data model is deemed near completion.  Mark
noted there are a couple other issues marked as Editor's notes in the document.
Actions: 1) Mark: send the details to chairs on editor's notes so ticket(s) can
be opened. 2) Chairs: Since the document is very near completion, the chairs
will start a 2 week pre-WGLC to ensure there are no other outstanding issues to
be resolved prior to forwarding for publication.

- Data Channel: There was no specific discussion around the data channel (which
was previously discussed at the    design team meeting).  The primary issues
are related to dependencies in other WGs.

- CLUE Protocol: There was no specific discussion around the CLUE protocol. 
The document is under consideration as a WG document (review to close on June
10th).  Once the data model is finalized, the CLUE protocol document can be
completed, with final changes coordinated with the signaling document.

- Data Model:  There was no discussion of the data model at the meeting.
Actions: 1) Mary: follow-up with Roberta on the current status of data model.
2) Chairs: schedule a discussion of the data model open issues (#48 and #35) at
an upcoming design team meeting if deemed necessary.

- Call Flows:  Rob and Roni agreed to work on a first pass at this.  Some
material can be pulled from the signaling document as well as from Simon's demo
slides from IETF-89.  Roni will start with a simple use case to be reviewed at
an upcoming design team call.

Way Forward
- Update wiki with proposed topics for upcoming design team meetings.
- Chairs to start pre-WGLC on framework.
- Individuals with assigned action items to complete those within the next few
weeks (no later than June 28th to allow time for documents to be updated prior
to IETF-90)

Detailed Discussions:

Signaling (Rob Hansen)
- Group restrictions. There is already some text.  At this time, this isn't
something that should be done. However, it's possible that this might be useful
in the future, thus the wording needs to be along the lines of MUST NOT…unless
OR SHOULD NOT…unless. - C?LUE controlled media.  There's a restriction on
sending ?CLUE controlled m-lines until the same has been negotiated in CLUE. 
Conclusion: use a=inactive - ?CLUE & SDP state machine interaction.  Some
changes are non-atomic.  The participant must be able to cope with a transitory
state. Conclusion: General agreement that we need some recommendations (along
the lines of slide 7).  Action: WG to discuss proposed text on mailing list.
With regards to specifics: -   inconsistencies are transitory - is this a
"SHOULD be" or "MUST be". Can't really defi -   don’t request anything until
details are available in both CLUE and SDP.  In most situations this won't
require and additional O/A. -   send changes in CLUE before SDP.

Review of open action items:
The following action items from the May 13th, 2014 design team meeting remain
open: 1)  John L to propose a follow-up action for the Issue Tracker on
separate mixer inputs. 2) Paul K to issue a call on the mailing list for
consensus on what to do about echo cancellation. 3) TP vendors to provide an
example advertisement listing their capabilities.

All the other action items are either OBE or work underway.

Review of open tickets:
- #21: close
- #35: Keep open until FW is complete and consistency with data model is
achieved. - #47:  Remains open. Christer to follow-up with Bo and Magnus to see
if they plan to complete Simulcast document. - #11: should be updated to
indicate that AppID needs to be considered.  Is it sufficient for CLUE or do we
need something else?   Action: Jonathan to delve into this. - #12: close. -
#29: close. - #25: Christian is still working on this - #27: close. - #49:
close (state machines are not coupled) - #24 & #30:  These relate to the
use of BFCP. No one on the call was interested in looking at any possible
interactions or usage of such. Thus, chairs will post a note to the mailing
list. If no one is willing to investigate issue (within next 2 weeks) ticket
will be closed as it's not within the obvious scope of CLUE.

In addition, we need to open a new ticket with regards to the use of BUNDLE
with CLUE.

Consensus and Action item summary by Christer Holmberg:
Topic: Call Flows

AP:   Roni E is going to start working on call flows, which will be placed in a
dedicated draft.

AP:   Christer H will follow the 3GPP work on call flows, to see whether some
call flows can be re-used between the organizations.

Topic: Clue Signalling

AP:   Rob H will, in the signaling draft, describe handling of media channels
for which CLUE content has not yet been negotiated. Such media channels will be
identical to “inactive” media channels, which means that, while media content
will not be sent, protocols like RTCP, DTLS and ICE will be sent.

Topic: Tickets

Ticket #21 closed.

Ticket #12 closed.

Ticket #29 closed.

Ticket #23 closed.

Ticket #27 closed.

AP:   Mary B will send an e-mail to the CLUE list, and suggest ticket #30 to be