Minutes interim-2018-cellar-03: Tue 20:00
minutes-interim-2018-cellar-03-201807312000-00

To: cellar at ietf.org
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2018 22:51:55 -0400
List-id: Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission
<cellar.ietf.org>

INFO:
        https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2018-cellar-03/session/cellar

WEBEX:
        Meeting number: 313 505 170
        Meeting password: dq64cWsm
        Meeting link:
        https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=me21026faa14be85507cdef66b860014e
        Host key: 763872
        Audio connection:
        1-650-479-3208 Call-in toll number (US/Canada)
   Slides:
   https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1iotL3RR_cgb_dmUWd0RvGi399d2hvNPTkR6a49RF5c4/edit?usp=sharing
   (slides do not say anything that isn't below)

Attendees:
        1. Michael Richardson (mcr)
        2. Kieran O'Leary
        3. Martin Below
        4. Jérôme Martinez
        5. Dave Rice (call-in user 2)
        6. Steve Lhomme
        7. Ashley Blewer
        8. Tim Terriberry

Regrets:
        1. Andrew Weaver (last minute issue)
        2. Michael Niedermayer
        3. Moritz Bunkus
        4.

Agenda:

1. Note Well.

2. Draft minutes from Last meeting.
        https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cellar/current/msg01505.html

3. Logistics for Meeting.
   2a) Etherpad for notes
       https://etherpad.tools.ietf.org/p/notes-cellar-virtual03?useMonospaceFont=true
       https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2018-cellar-01/materials/minutes-interim-2018-cellar-01-201805292000

   2b) Roll call
           -  as listed above.

4. Any updates from IETF102.
      -  Tim only person at IETF102
      - GENART review.  Matt spent over a month of effort on the review!!!
        Please take a good look at the comments.

      - Link to Matt Miller's review
       -
       https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cellar/671YjBEqo-vdtrHdUebApfu7t_8

       - Pull request from Dave, responding to pretty much all his
           comments.... there are a few suggestions that were not adopted, but
           that was due to it being controversial.

       -  Biggest part that is still pending, lots of pseudo-code, was
          looking for more narative, and there were concerns about
          conflicts... How to read the pseudo-code out loud while
          communicating it to another person. Added "as-read"...

       - DR looking for experience with other RFCs, looking for other
       -  examples of pseudo-code with narative.
                   ACTION: mcr to ask for advice. (DONE)

       -  RFC6716 has good points in the first half (up to section 4.2), and
          the second half was not as well received.

       - FFV1 --- Dave to review 6716, Jerome to do some markup on current
         code.

5. EBML document status.
   How to get this into WG Last Call.
   - explanation of what it is.
   - 8 issues open, 4 are "feature requests" for a future revision, 4 are
      small issues with pull requests outstanding.

   - Link to IANA considerations thread -
      https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/cellar/current/msg01601.html
   - EBML Header has TLV Element with Document Type. ElementID=xxx.
   - EBML Header Document Type needs a registry for Document Types: what is the
   amending - EBML header ElementIDs should have an update rule that says IETF
   Standards Action to update, (and version must be > 1).

   https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8126 <- different rules.

6. Milestones for WG.
   Proposed changes:
      Jul 2018     Adopt matroska specifications as WG documents
      Aug 2018        Submit specification for EBML to IESG (Standards Track)
      Oct 2018     Adopt flac     specifications as WG documents
                      not yet enough work on this?
                        most work has been making the document more RFC-like.
                        wait for Andrew Weaver to comment on this.

      Oct 2018        Submit informational specification for FFV1 video codec
                   versions 0, 1 and 3 to IESG for publication
                   draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1
                        -> just needs as-read narative to be sorted out.
                        -> implies WGLC for mid-September.

     Dec 2019        Submit specification for FFV1 video codec version 4 to
     IESG (Standards Track)

     xxx 2019        Submit informational specification for Matroska container
                format versions 1, 2 and 3 to IESG for publication

     xxx 2019        Submit specification for FLAC audio codec to IESG
     (Standards Track)
                   draft-xiph-cellar-flac

     xxx 2019        Submit specification for Matroska container format
                   version 4 to IESG (Standards Track)
                   draft-lhomme-cellar-matroska

        Do we need another WG document for AV1 codec?
        Would be ready as soon as we settle with MP4.... (iso-bmmf)
        (How does AV1 go into MP4, and how it goes into Matroska)

Why would we need another document, rather than use the CODEC registry in
matroska?
 SL: there are more details than fit, and maybe each codec needs a document
     to explain how it fits in.
 DR: Recommend we add av1 to CODEC registry in matroska as well
 SL: agrees

What would be appropriate values for xxx above?                   (for now,
April 2019)

7. responses/plan to address GENART review of ffv1.

ACTION:
     - pseudo-code vs narative.
     - IANA registries and values for EBML Header vs Document.
     - update milestones.
     - new document for AV1. (SL)
     - Add AV1 to CODEC registry.
     -

--
Michael Richardson <mcr+IETF at sandelman.ca>, Sandelman Software Works
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