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Minutes interim-2020-calext-02: Thu 23:00

Meeting Minutes Calendaring Extensions (calext) WG
Date and time 2020-06-18 13:00
Title Minutes interim-2020-calext-02: Thu 23:00
State Active
Other versions plain text
Last updated 2020-06-18

Bron: Reminder that this is a combined CalConnect/IETF session and is operating
under the IETF NoteWell, not the standard CalConnect policies. No agenda


Mike lost focus over the past few months.
Barry: issue with discusses that delay on.
Mike - next few days, review where we got and re-post.  Think we're pretty
close. Barry: also Ben Kaduk's discuss. Daniel: believe we were addressing
comments from Ben.

ACTION: Mike to post a summary of where we are at for eventpub in the next few

Server-side subscriptions

Bron: I missed the call for adoption finishing on this sorry, it should be
re-uploaded to calext. Mike: will upload as a calext draft. Ken: think Apple
have done something similar, should check that.

ACTION: Mike will post calext version of serverside subscription draft in the
next day or two. ACTION: Ken will check with Apple about their serverside

Icalendar Series

Not much done.
Bron: issue that almost everything has Mike as primary or only author.
Mike: really want to move this along - it has lots of potential.
  Last thing - Neil came up with a good suggestion to reduce work needed.
  Have done some implementation, don't appear to be problems.
Bron: be good to at least post again with an updated version number to refresh

ACTION: Mike will refresh draft for icalendar series.


Robert: thanks Mike for all the feedback and implementation experience.
Running gag - we're STILL in last call!
Robert away in June, so early July target date for end of last call.

EXRULE: feedback that it's complex, ambiguous, and nobody using it.
  Mike: most people won't create them, but for event publishing it gets quite
  complex and with the right tools, people could encode the rules as they
  understand them rather than having to manually fix things. Mike: ical4j does
  multiple RRULEs and multiple EXRULEs and handles them perfectly fine. Bron:
  libical is the other one.  Does it support it? Ken: not sure Mike: probably
  does because 2245 handled it. Ken: know there's blocks of code that address
  them, but not sure what happens. Neil: could add extensions of multiple
  RRULEs plus EXRULEs as a separate spec. Mike: when doing mapping from
  ICALENDAR to JSCALENDAR, need to make it as easy as possible, which means not
  having things that are in the spec not have a representation. Mike: maybe a
  section of "currently deprecated properties".  Can say "deprecated in
  icalendar, but here's how you do it in jscalendar. Neil: you have to define
  the semantics as well, which we can do - but it's weird to add it in a new
  spec... and what does "it's deprecated" mean?  Will we remove it later? Mike:
  put it in the mapping draft - here's how you would store it for round trip
  purposes. Mike: most clients would represent it correctly in icalendar - we
  could check again. Robert: you can round trip unknown items into a jcal
  "blob" that's JSON, but if you want semantics in jscalendar then you need it
  to have a real mapping. Anyone else? Daniel: agree that it's weird to put a
  deprecated thing in.  Need to understand why it was deprecated. Mike: appears
  to work fine in implementations which exist.  Issues with RRULE. Neil: think
  we've fixed that now at least!  We would need to define the semantics. Mike:
  don't want to bog JSCalendar down with the argument. Bron: Agree with the
  argument of "have the tool generate the EXDATEs for a published event, rather
  than having the EXRULE stored in the event itself". Neil: downside is that
  it's more complex and people won't implement. Neil: kind of think the same
  with multiple RRULEs.  It's all implementable, but trying not to make it feel
  scary to people. Ken: libical supports multiple RRULEs and multiple EXRULEs.
  Ken: multiple RRULEs would make the size of VTIMEZONEs a lot smaller! Mike:
  argument against multiple RRULEs was based on what UIs do, which is bogus. 
  It's easier to express complex rules as multiple RRULEs. Neil: if most of the
  client UIs support it, because the libraries do, then maybe it's OK. Ken:
  college class schedules for example could benefit from this. Neil: leaning
  towards include EXRULEs. Ken: may be worth looking at the holiday rule. Mike:
  maybe a good use for "related to" to point to an event that is used to
  provide exclusions.

ACTION: Ken to test libical to see what it does with EXRULEs.
ACTION: Neil/Robert to add EXRULEs to jscalendar format if needed.
ACTION: more discussion on list about jscalendar and EXRULE

Subscription Upgrade

Mike: need to refresh it (both in mind and as a draft!)
Next meeting is only a month from now!

ACTION: Mike to refresh draft for subscription upgrade

Valarm extensions

Ken: Daniel did a a review
Daniel: now that JSCalendar is close, do we add a note to all future drafts to
say how to make it compatible with JSCalendar? Ken: depends where mapping draft
is. Mike: probably need to check if there's anything. Ken: think most
facilities in this are already in JSCalendar.  Mike: yes.

ACTION: Ken to read, review and submit changes to valarm extensions if needed.
ACTION: Ken to double check if there's anything in valarm extensions that's not
already covered by JSCalendar.


It's expired again.  There was a big change for PARTICIPANTs instead of VVOTERs
- Mike will double check. Still needs a lot of work in the iTIP area. Mike:
will try to get a version out before the next meeting. There's also been some
other interest in vpoll recently.

ACTION: Mike to check if we've switched to PARTICIPANT rather than VOTER in
vpoll, then refresh draft.

Other business:

Paul: Thunderbird is planning to move from libical to icaljs.  Will ask to see
what icaljs supports.  Philipp is the author of icaljs.


Scheduling Controls:
ACTION: Bron to refresh before the next meeting.

Jul 2020 - VALARM EXT
Aug 2020 - JSCalendar
Aug 2020 - Scheduling Controls
Dec 2020 - Series
Dec 2020 - Subscription Upgrade
Dec 2020 - Serverside Subscriptions
Mar 2021 - VPoll