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Minutes interim-2020-core-12: Thu 16:00
minutes-interim-2020-core-12-202011051600-00

Meeting Minutes Constrained RESTful Environments (core) WG Snapshot
Title Minutes interim-2020-core-12: Thu 16:00
State Active
Other versions plain text
Last updated 2020-11-05

minutes-interim-2020-core-12-202011051600-00
# CoRE Virtual interim - 2020-11-05 - 15:00 UTC

Chairs:

* Marco Tiloca, RISE
* Jaime Jiménez, Ericsson

## Remote instructions

material: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2020-core-12/session/core
webex: https://ietf.webex.com/ietf/j.php?MTID=m42a6113960b3434a699fc514e176a5a5
jabber: core@jabber.ietf.org
codimd: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2020-core-12-core?both

Minute takers: Jaime
Jabber scribes: Marco

## Participants

1. Marco Tiloca, RISE
2. Jaime Jiménez, Ericsson
3. Rikard Höglund, RISE
4. Christian Amsüss
5. Carsten Bormann, TZI
6. Göran Selander, Ericsson
7. Alan Soloway, Qualcomm
8. Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works Inc

*[MT]: Marco Tiloca
*[JJ]: Jaime Jiménez
*[FP]: Francesca Palombini
*[CB]: Carsten Bormann
*[CA]: Christian Amsüss
*[KH]: Klaus Hartke
*[RH]: Rikard Höglund
*[TF]: Thomas Fossati
*[DN]: David Navarro
*[GS]: Göran Selander
*[BS]: Bilhanan Silverajan
*[AS]: Alan Soloway
*[MR]: Michael Richardson
*[MB]: Mohamed Boucadair
*[JS]: Jon Shallow

## Agenda

### Note Well

Remember that the [note well](https://datatracker.ietf.org/submit/note-well/)
applies, for [IPR](https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp79) but also for [WG
processes](https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp25) and [code of
conduct](https://tools.ietf.org/html/bcp54). Try to be nice.

### Cachable OSCORE (Christian Amsüss)

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-amsuess-core-cachable-oscore-00

Presented slides:
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim-2020-core-12/slides/slides-interim-2020-core-12-sessa-cachable-oscore-00.pdf

Open points, security considerations and way forward.

Presenting

Discussing next steps to make OSCORE cacheable.

Deterministic Requests (as main focus, possibly keeping aside "ticket requests")

   - Many clients in a same group using Group OSCORE produce identical
   OSCORE-protected requests byte by byte, if starting from the same inner
   request. The outer code will be FETCH, so that it can be cached (RFC 8613
   does not say it has to be only for Observe requests). - For all clients, the
   'kid' would be the one of a fixed "deterministic client"; the PIV would be
   0; a new field 'kid detail' for the OSCORE option would be considered, with
   value the hash of original plaintext and AAD. - 'kid detail' also takes part
   in the derivation of the "deterministic key" practically used to compute the
   OSCORE message as deterministic request.

GS: why is that cacheable now?

CA: because it's using FETCH; it's fine as long as the server does not use a
low max-age, then the proxy will cache the response. As long as the group is
the same, everythying is the same in the request for every client in the group.
Same cache key for the different alike requests.

GS: Assuming shared key in the group. You can't cache if you are not in the
group.

CA: Correct. But no client can fake server responses, since there is a
signature at the end of them expected from the server with its Sender ID
involved.

CB: The proxy does the caching and it is not in the group. You cannot be part
of a succesful caching transaction unless you are in the group.

GS: If I am not part of the group, could I realize that I should be in the
group somehow?

CA: If you don't already know, then you'll try to send a regular request. Then,
we might apply the concept used in the error responses for multicast
notifications to redirect the client and do it in a deterministic way. Either
way, the response will go to the client.

CA presenting example on firmware updates when lots of clients access the same
resource. They will all hit the same cache at the border router (NICE!)

GS: Difference between 2nd group member calculating message using group key and
another rmember copying the request?

CA: they are identical.

GS: The proxy receives same message then.

CA: Yes.

CA: Presenting other prerequisites.

- We might not need source authentication in the deterministic request, so it
could avoid the signature but just keep the MAC for group-level authentication.

- The server has to skip replay checks here, but it can be done for safe
requests, which is always the case here.

- We may think of considering the presence of 'kid detail' in the OSCORE as a
possible way to make the OSCORE option part of the cache key, as possible
further optimization to speed up the proxy in recognizing a deterministic
request and serve the client from the cache.

CA: Why was OSCON removed from OSCORE?

GS: It was something intended also for Pubsub, and was taken out due to slow
progress of the pubsub draft. It might be revived. Someone may need to run
EDHOC and to use the result for something different than OSCORE.

MR: So, for idempotent actions, the request is blinded so that the cache  can't
see the request/response, but can still cache it.

CA: Yes.

### Stateless (Michael Richardson)

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-core-stateless-07

Remaining open points:

   - Recommended size for the replay window
       - https://github.com/core-wg/stateless/pull/14/files

   - Interaction of freshness window of client/intermediate
       - https://github.com/core-wg/stateless/issues/4

   - Updating CoAP on distinguishing unrecognized vs invalid extension
       - https://github.com/core-wg/stateless/issues/3

What advice do we give for the size of the replay window?

CB: Fixed in the latest push.

Checking PR 15.

MR: Where does MAX_TRANSMIT_WAIT of 93s comes from?

CB: RFC 7252, when computed it arrives to 93s.

MR: 1req/10s looks OK. 10 req outstanding at a time.

MT: Proposed editorial change:

> For instance, given a CoAP MAX_TRANSMIT_WAIT of 93 s, any request that is not
answered within 93 s will be considered to have failed. Then, considering a
request rate of 1 request / 10 seconds, at most 10 requests can be outstanding
at a time.

MT: Remaining two issues to be closed on Github. One is "won't fix", one seems
actually addressed in -07. Just to be closed?

MR: Agree. Resubmit when reopening. Replying to reviewers.

### CORECONF

MT: Where are we with shepherd writeup for CORECONF?

CB: Going forward slowly, other docs on OAUTH48. Before IETF 109.

### AOB