Minutes interim-2020-mops-01: Wed 16:00

Meeting Minutes Media OPerationS (mops) WG
Title Minutes interim-2020-mops-01: Wed 16:00
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Last updated 2020-05-01

Meeting Minutes

Media OPerationS (MOPS) WG
April 2020 Virtual Interim
Wednesday, April 15, 2020 20h00UTC-21h30UTC

Webex details below



Agenda Bashing [5min] chair(s)

Review of concrete work items:

[15min] Draft of edge network operational considerations for streaming media
Jake Holland
Github - https://github.com/ietf-wg-mops/draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons
Accepting comments via GitHub issues
Presented update on draft
Discussion on “Soliciting Contributions - Proposed Template”
     + have in current draft or perhaps produce new draft (BCP?)
Matt Stock: Like template and sees potential
Jake Holland: Appreciates feedback.  Potential to write diffrent BCPs, targeted
at diffrent audience Spencer Dawkins: Aim is for draft to not only call out
potential bad things but rather try to be actionable, hence why mitigations are
solicited Glenn Deen: +1 on collecting mitigations and sees potential in this
highlighting potential areas of interest/work. Mitigations are only a first
step, and where there are really egregious problems the mitigation may be a
temporary approach and the issue may trigger additional work relevant to the
IETF. Matt Stock: Mitigations may not be black/white but rather may involve
tradeoffs which should be called out to inform decision-making Leslie Daigle:
Maybe collect the issues as a starting point Spencer Dawkins: Thanks for
discussion on COVID-19 impact on video traffic, with references.
draft-ietf-mops-streaming-opcons now has a section on "Unpredictable Usage
Profiles", and the authors have been talking about mentioning COVID-19 as well.

Updates from elsewhere

Updates from other work
[15min] Sanjay Mishra - anything from SVA Open Caching WG
Described significant impact COVID-19 having on video traffic seeing by carriers
Discussed ongoing and potential work of interest in SVA and potential new
working groups Glenn Deen: Recent work in SVA working group on media use cases
for multicast streaming that may be of interest Jake Holland: Work looks
interesting.  What does engagement with SVA look like?  SVA members commenting
on IETF mailing list? Interested to hear more about the multicast work Sanjay
Mishra: Perhaps bring back updates/proble statements etc from SVA to IETF, IETF
can work on these items and perhaps SVA consumes the output Spencer Dawkins:
Thanks for discussion on COVID-19 impact on video traffic Glenn Deen: Address
potential issue regarding IPR raised by Jake Holland.  There should be no
issues - SVA docs are published on the web for all to read and IP issues
shouldn't enter into MOPS working with SVA use csses. If still concerned,
please come talk to glenn.deen@nbcuni.com - I'm on the SVA board.

[5min] Glenn Deen -- anything further re SMPTE

[15min] Maxim Sharabayko SRT — see
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-sh arabayko-mops-srt/ , posted on MOPS
mailing list Overview of potential benefits SRT Jake Holland: Questions about
protocol and operational use.  Suitable for contribution/distribution or
livestreaming to end-users? Max Sharabayko: SRT is well-suited for media Marc
Cymontkowski: Use of UDP means not SRT is not direct What other protocols were
considered and what was deficient about them? Marc Cymontkowski: Original goal
was to transmit live stream over public internet. Came to problem with clean
slate and started with UDP and added enhancements to make it more suited for
real-time traffic. Kyle Rose: With hindsight, starting off with RTP may have
been a better option at the start, a few years ago. Glenn Deen: Comcast use SRT
significantly and so keen for this work to succeed.  What are the current
priorities for RTP? Marc Cymontkowski: Redundancy, balancing data of multiple
links, congestion control Glenn Denn: Congestion control of interest - as
playing nicely with the network is in everyone's best interest Leslie Daigle:
Potential interest in this WG in this protocol.  Detailed protocol machinery
discussions will be done in other WGs but MOPS interested Spencer Dawkins: An
Independent Stream draft on SRT as it exists today will be of great value to
MOPS, because we would have a good reference for the protocol as we start to
make recommendations on use of SRT for streaming operators. That was the
recommendation for a first step from Dispatch discussion on SRT as I understood
it, although the final direction would be up to the responsible area directors.

Alex Gouaillard: Discussion in other WGs regarding SRT, especially concerns
regarding security - When presented at IETF dispatch, concerned were expressed
by long time IETF contributors like Eric Rescorla, Colin Perkins, Martin
Thompson discussion here:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/dispatch/ekMWlMXch132tvri2BwrnnULzuw/ -
The question was just about the status of those discussions as, given the
position of the people asking with respect to security, media transport, QUIC,
SRTP, at IETF, those questions will come back at one point. - One of the
question raised on the Dispatch thread was also, why at mops and not in ART,
since it looks more in scope for the latter. - Another question was regarding
security definition (eric/martin) - another question, more generic, is why a
new protocol when it looks like webrtc / QUIC are a good match to the announced
goal (nat traversal, TLS 1.3, CC, BWE, ...) => discussion on dispatch would
have concluded by a request for a document, and thus is pending this document

Operational Issues Observed
[15min] Jake Holland — Experience making the world safe for interdomain
multicast Discussed some of the challenges/opportunities with interdomain
multicast Outlined goals for 2020 & eager to collaborate in trials/POCs so
please reach out if interested Leslie Daigle: Interesting overview

[10min]  Liaison Statement from SC 29/WG 11 to IETF MOPS WG (SC 29 N 18620)
Spencer Dawkins: Spoke to Stephan Wegner, the IAB liaison manager for SC 29/WG
11, on Monday; he had no further updates beyond what was in the original
liaison statement they sent to IETF.

Leslie Daigle: Git repo set up for WG
Kyle Rose: Repo will be used when documents are adopted.  Not mandatory but
convenient for collaboration.  Will send URL on list shortly