Minutes interim-2021-cellar-08: Tue 21:00
minutes-interim-2021-cellar-08-202109282100-00

Meeting Minutes Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission (cellar) WG
Date and time 2021-09-28 19:00
Title Minutes interim-2021-cellar-08: Tue 21:00
State Active
Other versions markdown
Last updated 2021-09-28

minutes-interim-2021-cellar-08-202109282100-00

CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting

Date Time Local Times
2021-09-28 21:00 Amsterdam Time Converter
Note Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam

Administrivia

INFO:

https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2021-07
Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here

WEB CONFERENCE:

https://whereby.com/cellar-interim

THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try connecting to the whereby.com link at any time.)
:::warning
We are still on whereby.com for this meeting, but still planning to move to Meetecho for upcoming meetings. Please stay alert!
:::

Shared COMIMD for notetaking: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual

  • Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to edit these notes, add your name to attendee lists, etc.
  • Please ask Spencer if you have questions.
    :::warning
    The ComiMD URL is still redirecting, but the newly official location is https://notes.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual?edit - and that's active now. Please bookmark the new one when you're redirected to it.
    :::

Logistics for Meeting

2021 virtual interim meeting dates

Agenda Items

Note Well: https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/

Roll call

Attendees
* Spencer Dawkins
* Dave Rice
* Michael Richardson
* Jerome Martinez
* Michael Niedermayer
* Steve Lhomme
* Martijn van Beurden

Regrets
* Reto Kromer
*

News You Can Use

  • NOTE that https://mediaarea.net/NoTimeToWait5 is December 8-10, with in-person and virtual registration - are Cellar people attending?
    ** workshop on improving Matroska, and how to improve FFV1.
    ** the workshops are on December 8, meeting 9/10.

Default dates for 2022 Cellar meetings

  • 2022-01-25
  • 2022-02-22
  • 2022-03-22 (but this is IETF 113 - move it to 2022-03-29)
  • 2022-04-26
  • 2022-05-24
  • 2022-06-28
  • 2022-07-26 (but this is IETF 114 - we canceled July in 2021. Is canceling July the right summer month to cancel? Yes - we MIGHT be meeting in person, at the IETF, but too soon to know that yet)
  • 2022-08-23
  • 2022-09-27
  • 2022-10-25
  • 2022-11-22 (this is Tuesday of American Thanksgiving - does anyone care?)
  • 2022-12-27 (but this is winter break for most of us, so we canceled in 2021. Maybe move it to 2022-12-06, or is that too close to the November meeting?

proposed final dates:
* 2022-01-25
* 2022-02-22
* 2022-03-29
* 2022-04-26
* 2022-05-24
* 2022-06-28
* 2022-08-23
* 2022-09-27
* 2022-10-25
* 2022-12-06
ACTION Spencer to confirm on mailing list

WG status update

Milestone review:

  • Previous status: Jerome is now able to focus on FFV1-v4, since we've published FFV1. ACTION Spencer to send e-mail to DISPATCH when we submit a (small) update. We should wait until we have a bit more text, or bigger issues, to publish as a draft.
  • Are we ready to submit a working group draft for EBML updates (errata plus additions) yet? (https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/ebml-specification/tree/corrections-doc)
  • FLAC still needs an editor to complete the work. Michael did hear back from Florin, and he's unable to serve as editor, so the working group has a decision to make about FLAC.
Discussion on the call
  • Steve is waiting for reviews on Matroska (should we just merge everything? :-) Timescale looks like the tricky question, for now. Can start preliminary review on merged documents then. Planning to sort IDs for IANA (we have over 100 of them) - want to make sure this is easy to verify correctness.
    IANA will accept XML file for everything
  • When RFC for Matroska is published, do we have to do anything to update links to Internet-Drafts? No, that's handled by IANA.

Accept draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below)

  • Any objections? Please let us know on the mailing list.
  • No objections during the call.

Matroska issues - Discussion on the call

  • Mostly validating patches and approving them

FFV1 v4 issues - Discussion on the call

  • Jerome has ideas for proof of concepts, but not ready to share that yet.
  • Some questions about licensing in IETF - license on FFV1 not present, patch has been approved and applied. License is same as Matroska.

FLAC issues - Discussion on the call

  • (We noted that we don't have the original FLAC authors involved - we probably need to do some homework on this, to ensure that we handle copyright for FLAC correctly)
  • Remember to mention the FLAC format author(s) - "Josh Coalson", copyrights in 2009 and 2011 on the website
  • Martijn van Beurden would like to help, and has experience on libFLAC. For now, we just need to make sure that everything in the documents makes sense/is logical. If anything is missing, we just need to create issues (https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/Cellar-FLAC/issues) and PRs for that.

AOB?

  • Spencer welcomed Martijn van Beurden and thanked him for his offer of help on FLAC

:::success
NEXT MEETING 2021-10-26 :tada:
:::

Notes from previous meeting for approval

CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting

Date Time Local Times
2021-08-24 21:00 Amsterdam Time Converter
Note Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam

Administrivia

INFO:

https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2021-07
Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here

WEB CONFERENCE:

https://whereby.com/cellar-interim

THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try connecting to the whereby.com link at any time.)

Shared COMIMD for notetaking: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual

  • Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll
    be able to edit these notes, add your name to attendee
    lists, etc.
  • Please ask Spencer if you have questions.
    :::warning
    The ComiMD URL is still redirecting, but the newly official location is https://notes.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual?edit - and that's active now. Please bookmark the new one when you're redirected to it.
    :::

Logistics for Meeting

2021 virtual interim meeting dates

  • Please note our 2021 dates listed at https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/
  • IETF 112 will also be a fully online meeting (announced 2021-08-04), so we will not be meeting face-to-face in Madrid, right? Perhaps in early December, close to Amsterdam with a workshop on FFv1 and Matroska (also in person) More info at https://mediaarea.net/NoTimeToWait5
  • ACTION: Co-chairs to propose 2022 meeting schedule in September meeting, for information and comment.
    • September 28, 2021: 21:00 Paris (1900 UTC)
    • October 26, 2021: 21:00 Paris (1900 UTC)
    • November 23, 2021: 21:00 Paris (2000 UTC)

Agenda Items

Note Well: https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/

Roll call

Attendees
* Spencer Dawkins
* Steve Lhomme
* Michael Richardson
* Jerome Martinez
* Michael Neidermayer
* Dave Rice

Regrets
*

News You Can Use

WG status update

Milestone review:

  • Matroska maybe at the end of Summer 2021? It's closer than we thought
  • Is it worth publishing an update to ffv1-v4 that includes the goals we've discussed previously?
  • Are we ready to submit a working group draft for EBML updates (errata plus additions) yet? (https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/ebml-specification/tree/corrections-doc)
  • FLAC still needs an editor to complete the work. Michael did hear back from Florin, and he's unable to serve as editor, so the working group has a decision to make about FLAC.
Discussion on the call
  • Almost all the Matroska issues have PRs waiting for reviews - 7 do not. Steve will work on this during the coming week, and then send a version for review (soon) (after the PRs are merged)
  • Jerome is now able to focus on FFV1-v4, since we've published FFV1. ACTION Spencer to send e-mail to DISPATCH when we submit a (small) update.
  • We should wait until we have a bit more text, or bigger issues, to publish as a draft.

Michael Richardson has asked to step down as co-chair for SOME WORKING GROUP, after years of service in this role.

  • This may be CELLAR, but also may not be. He's asked the ADs to pick one.
  • We need to have a conversation about succession planning.
  • Michael and Spencer are both IETF process resources, not technical resources - it would be good to have at least one of each.
  • We could be using document shepherds to develop talent, but they need to be involved with our work, on calls, etc.
  • Open call on the Cellar mailing list? Michael has reached out to individuals in the past - that worked with Matroska.
  • IETF working groups do not name their own leadership - that's an Area Director responsibity - but ADs make their best choices when they have all the information we can give them to make choices.

Accept draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below)

  • Any objections? Please let us know on the mailing list.

Follow-up on Possible switch to Meetecho for our calls

Discussion on previous calls
  • We discussed moving to Meetecho (from whereby.com) at the May meeting, and Spencer had an action to check on iOS and Android clients for Meetecho.
  • Spencer verified that Meetecho uses WebRTC, so should work with any browser, but does not currently have an iOS or Android client available.
  • Michael's experience is that Meetecho REALLY needs to run from a computer, and not a phone or tablet, just because you need a lot of screen real estate to keep track of queues, chats, and other stuff.
Discussion on the call
  • Is using a computer for Cellar interim meetings a dealbreaker for anyone?
  • None on the call ...
  • ACTION Spencer will request Meetecho for our September meeting.

FFV1 v4 issues - Discussion on the call

Matroska issues - Discussion on the call

FLAC issues - Discussion on the call

  • Were not discussed on the call

AOB?

  • None noted, except that Spencer and Michael expressed their appreciation for the people in the working group!

:::success
NEXT MEETING 2021-09-28 :tada:
:::