Minutes interim-2021-cellar-09: Tue 21:00
minutes-interim-2021-cellar-09-202110262100-00

Meeting Minutes Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission (cellar) WG
Date and time 2021-10-26 19:00
Title Minutes interim-2021-cellar-09: Tue 21:00
State Active
Other versions markdown
Last updated 2021-10-27

minutes-interim-2021-cellar-09-202110262100-00

CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting

Date Time Local Times
2021-10-26 21:00 Amsterdam Time Converter
Note Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam

Administrivia

INFO:

https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2021-09
Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here

WEB CONFERENCE:

https://whereby.com/cellar-interim

THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try connecting to the whereby.com link at any time.)
:::warning
We are still on whereby.com for this meeting, but still planning to move to Meetecho for upcoming meetings. Please stay alert!
:::

Shared COMIMD for notetaking: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual

  • Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to edit these notes, add your name to attendee lists, etc.
  • Please ask Spencer if you have questions.
    :::warning
    The ComiMD URL is still redirecting, but the newly official location is https://notes.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual?edit - and that's active now. Please bookmark the new one when you're redirected to it.
    :::

Logistics for Meeting

2021 virtual interim meeting dates

Agenda Items

Note Well: https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/

Roll call

Attendees
* Spencer Dawkins
* Michael Richardson
* Steve Lhomme
* Jerome Martinez
* Martijn van Beurden
* Reto Kromer
* Dave Rice
* Michael Niedermayer

Regrets
*

News You Can Use

  • NOTE that https://mediaarea.net/NoTimeToWait5 is December 8-10, with in-person and virtual registration - a lot of us are attending
    ** workshop on improving Matroska, and how to improve FFV1.
    ** the workshops are on December 8, meeting 9/10.

Proposed final dates for 2022 Cellar meetings

  • 2022-01-25
  • 2022-02-22
  • 2022-03-29
  • 2022-04-26
  • 2022-05-24
  • 2022-06-28
  • 2022-08-23
  • 2022-09-27
  • 2022-10-25
  • 2022-12-06

ACTION Michael sending request to our ADs and requesting secretariat to add these meetings in the datatracker

WG status update

Milestone review:

  • Previous status: Jerome is now able to focus on FFV1-v4, since we've published FFV1. ACTION Spencer to send e-mail to DISPATCH when we submit a (small) update. We should wait until we have a bit more text, or bigger issues, to publish as a draft.
  • Are we ready to submit a working group draft for EBML updates (errata plus additions) yet? (https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/ebml-specification/tree/corrections-doc) - we can still wait for more feedback/bigger changes before submitting anything - ETA is "after we get Matroska out, so we know everything Matroska needs will be covered"
  • Have we selected a new editor for FLAC? actually, no, and we need to. This work is heating up, but until this becomes a bottleneck, we can wait until Matroska is out

Accept draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below)

  • Any objections? Please let us know on the mailing list.
  • No objections on the mailing list or on the call.
  • Remember, the issue we care about right now is whether the IETF can publish a FLAC specification
  • Our "last Contact" for the specification we're working with, is "Copyright (c) 2000-2009 Josh Coalson, 2011-2014 Xiph.Org Foundation" (https://xiph.org/flac/format.html)
Discussion on the call
  • We are still verifying what the license covering the specification is - it's GFL 1.1, specified in the HTML file
  • Continue with the current document, or start a new one?
  • Dave has confirmed with Andrew Weaver that he's not interested in continuing the work
  • Our issue is that the IETF licensing is incompatible with GFL license, because we're using copyright as a substitute for a trademark, since trademark doesn't exist in all countries
  • This is probably a conversation we should have with the IETF Trust
  • We should also give our ADs a heads-up
  • Michael is writing a note to the IETF Trust on our call, asking for guidance

Matroska issues - Discussion on the call

  • Merging the easy PRs for now
  • Two categories of issues are left
  • Checking with Moritz on 3-4 pull requests, can move ahead without a reply
  • Steve - we're close to being ready for a full review
  • New Matroska docs were taken out of the main specification, and aren't blocking for us to move forward
  • Both new documents need closer looks and discussion

FLAC issues - Discussion on the call

  • Lots of open issues and PRs are new
  • We have a new version, being posted manually
  • ("Ongoing")
  • We need to track our changes to FLAC while we chase down the plan for dealing with the original text

FFV1 v4 issues - Discussion on the call

  • No discussion on the call

AOB?

  • We have new test files repos - ACTION Spencer to update our activity report
  • We will meet on Whereby in November meeting, and then (try to) migrate to MeetEcho as a group
  • Keep an eye on CoViD-19 situations no matter where you are and where you will be!

:::success
NEXT MEETING 2021-11-23 :tada:
:::

Notes from previous meeting for approval

CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting

Date Time Local Times
2021-09-28 21:00 Amsterdam Time Converter
Note Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam

Administrivia

INFO:

https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2021-07
Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here

WEB CONFERENCE:

https://whereby.com/cellar-interim

THERE IS NO TELEPHONE DIALIN (You can try connecting to the whereby.com link at any time.)
:::warning
We are still on whereby.com for this meeting, but still planning to move to Meetecho for upcoming meetings. Please stay alert!
:::

Shared COMIMD for notetaking: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual

  • Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to edit these notes, add your name to attendee lists, etc.
  • Please ask Spencer if you have questions.
    :::warning
    The ComiMD URL is still redirecting, but the newly official location is https://notes.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual?edit - and that's active now. Please bookmark the new one when you're redirected to it.
    :::

Logistics for Meeting

2021 virtual interim meeting dates

Agenda Items

Note Well: https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/

Roll call

Attendees
* Spencer Dawkins
* Dave Rice
* Michael Richardson
* Jerome Martinez
* Michael Niedermayer
* Steve Lhomme
* Martijn van Beurden

Regrets
* Reto Kromer
*

News You Can Use

  • NOTE that https://mediaarea.net/NoTimeToWait5 is December 8-10, with in-person and virtual registration - are Cellar people attending?
    ** workshop on improving Matroska, and how to improve FFV1.
    ** the workshops are on December 8, meeting 9/10.

Default dates for 2022 Cellar meetings

  • 2022-01-25
  • 2022-02-22
  • 2022-03-22 (but this is IETF 113 - move it to 2022-03-29)
  • 2022-04-26
  • 2022-05-24
  • 2022-06-28
  • 2022-07-26 (but this is IETF 114 - we canceled July in 2021. Is canceling July the right summer month to cancel? Yes - we MIGHT be meeting in person, at the IETF, but too soon to know that yet)
  • 2022-08-23
  • 2022-09-27
  • 2022-10-25
  • 2022-11-22 (this is Tuesday of American Thanksgiving - does anyone care?)
  • 2022-12-27 (but this is winter break for most of us, so we canceled in 2021. Maybe move it to 2022-12-06, or is that too close to the November meeting?

proposed final dates:
* 2022-01-25
* 2022-02-22
* 2022-03-29
* 2022-04-26
* 2022-05-24
* 2022-06-28
* 2022-08-23
* 2022-09-27
* 2022-10-25
* 2022-12-06
ACTION Spencer to confirm on mailing list

WG status update

Milestone review:

  • Previous status: Jerome is now able to focus on FFV1-v4, since we've published FFV1. ACTION Spencer to send e-mail to DISPATCH when we submit a (small) update. We should wait until we have a bit more text, or bigger issues, to publish as a draft.
  • Are we ready to submit a working group draft for EBML updates (errata plus additions) yet? (https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/ebml-specification/tree/corrections-doc)
  • FLAC still needs an editor to complete the work. Michael did hear back from Florin, and he's unable to serve as editor, so the working group has a decision to make about FLAC.
Discussion on the call
  • Steve is waiting for reviews on Matroska (should we just merge everything? :-) Timescale looks like the tricky question, for now. Can start preliminary review on merged documents then. Planning to sort IDs for IANA (we have over 100 of them) - want to make sure this is easy to verify correctness.
    IANA will accept XML file for everything
  • When RFC for Matroska is published, do we have to do anything to update links to Internet-Drafts? No, that's handled by IANA.

Accept draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below)

  • Any objections? Please let us know on the mailing list.
  • No objections during the call.

Matroska issues - Discussion on the call

  • Mostly validating patches and approving them

FFV1 v4 issues - Discussion on the call

  • Jerome has ideas for proof of concepts, but not ready to share that yet.
  • Some questions about licensing in IETF - license on FFV1 not present, patch has been approved and applied. License is same as Matroska.

FLAC issues - Discussion on the call

  • (We noted that we don't have the original FLAC authors involved - we probably need to do some homework on this, to ensure that we handle copyright for FLAC correctly)
  • Remember to mention the FLAC format author(s) - "Josh Coalson", copyrights in 2009 and 2011 on the website
  • Martijn van Beurden would like to help, and has experience on libFLAC. For now, we just need to make sure that everything in the documents makes sense/is logical. If anything is missing, we just need to create issues (https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/Cellar-FLAC/issues) and PRs for that.

AOB?

  • Spencer welcomed Martijn van Beurden and thanked him for his offer of help on FLAC

:::success
NEXT MEETING 2021-10-26 :tada:
:::