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Minutes interim-2022-cellar-03: Tue 21:00
minutes-interim-2022-cellar-03-202203292100-00

Meeting Minutes Codec Encoding for LossLess Archiving and Realtime transmission (cellar) WG
Title Minutes interim-2022-cellar-03: Tue 21:00
State Active
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Last updated 2022-04-23

minutes-interim-2022-cellar-03-202203292100-00

CELLAR -- DRAFT MINUTES for Virtual Interim Meeting

<table> <thead> <tr> <th align="center">Date</th> <th align="center">Time</th> <th align="left">Local Times</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr> <td align="center">2022-03-29</td> <td align="center">21:00 Amsterdam</td> <td align="left">Time Converter</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">Note</td> <td align="center">Meeting time is intentionally anchored to Amsterdam</td> <td align="left"></td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

Administrivia

Logistics for Meeting

INFO:

https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2022-02 Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here

WEB CONFERENCE:

https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=cfe1fd60-bccc-413f-a57b-fdf3cbf2878b

This link ^^ changes every month. Spencer did not know this.

<pre>Please note that the MeetEcho links for 2022 are available at https://gce.conf.meetecho.com/admin-ietf/ </pre>

Shared HedgeDoc for notetaking: https://notes.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual?edit

  • Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to edit these notes, add your name to attendee lists, etc.
  • Please ask Spencer if you have questions.

2022 virtual interim meeting dates

  • Please note our 2022 dates listed at https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/

Agenda Items

Note Well: https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/

Roll call

Attendees * Spencer Dawkins * Martijn van Beurden * Michael Richardson * Reto Kromer * Steve Lhomme * Jerome Martinez

Regrets *

Accept draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below)

  • Any objections? Please let us know on the mailing list.
  • No Objections, so ...

WG document status update

  • draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-00 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists
  • draft-ietf-cellar-codec-07 was posted 2021-10-19, in ID Exists
  • draft-ietf-cellar-control-00 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists
  • draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-18 was posted 2021-11-27, in ID Exists
  • draft-ietf-cellar-flac-02 was posted 2021-11-01, in ID Exists
  • draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-08 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists
  • draft-ietf-cellar-tags-07 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists

Milestone review:

  • Previous status: Jerome is now able to focus on FFV1-v4, since we've published FFV1. ACTION Spencer to send e-mail to DISPATCH when we submit a (small) update. We should wait until we have a bit more text, or bigger issues, to publish as a draft.

  • Are we ready to submit a working group draft for EBML updates (errata plus additions) yet? (https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/ebml-specification/tree/corrections-doc)

    • we can still wait for more feedback/bigger changes before submitting anything - ETA is "after we get Matroska out, so we know everything Matroska needs will be covered"
    • also have some implementation/experience reports.

FLAC as Standards Track or Informational

  • PR #135 is OK to push
  • Closed for now

errata to acknowledge the MP4 registry work for FFV1

  • as listed in https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cellar/kcchQqo6aq2veXijhwVmozQDLCc/.
  • Steve will enter errata for this
  • Need to add same material for FFV1-V4 but we do this in GitHub, because that's not a published RFC
  • https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/blob…master/ffv1.md#matroska-file-format=
  • See https://mp4ra.org/#/codecs and search FFV1

?? email on #matroska-user with the subject "[Matroska-users] Video Coding History questions”

  • Postponed to April meeting

push matroska-09 and submit it for review to the higher powers

  • One remaining issue, and it's unrelated
  • Ready to push this one now.
  • We'll initiate WGLC and forward email to appropriate mailing lists outside IETF.
  • Will be four week WGLC with two-week reminder

publish codec-08 and tags-08 as well since they seem to expire in April

  • (but "Codec changes include proper reference to the (renamed) UncompressedFourCC element and AVS3 codec" and "Tags have the new TVDB2 tag")
  • will publish when they expire - they're not being WGLCed

FLAC issues - Discussion on the call

  • Two new issues, please review
  • Issues #145 and #146

Matroska issues - Discussion on the call

  • Can defer this and focus on codecs and tags until after WGLC

FFV1 v4 issues - Discussion on the call

  • No updates on this call
  • We need to discuss directions on the April call

AOB?

*

:::success NEXT MEETING 2022-04-26 :tada: :::

CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting

<table> <thead> <tr> <th align="center">Date</th> <th align="center">Time</th> <th align="left">Local Times</th> </tr> </thead> <tbody> <tr> <td align="center">2022-01-25</td> <td align="center">21:00 Amsterdam</td> <td align="left">Time Converter</td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center">Note</td> <td align="center">Meeting time is intentionally anchored to Amsterdam</td> <td align="left"></td> </tr> </tbody> </table>

Administrivia

Logistics for Meeting

INFO:

https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2022-01 Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here

WEB CONFERENCE:

https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?short=7c38e939-3eaf-451e-8fde-8d05e4bd88c8

Shared COMIMD for notetaking: https://codimd.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual

  • Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to edit these notes, add your name to attendee lists, etc.
  • Please ask Spencer if you have questions. :::warning The ComiMD URL is still redirecting, but the newly official location is https://notes.ietf.org/notes-cellar-virtual?edit - and that's active now. Please bookmark the new one when you're redirected to it. :::

2022 virtual interim meeting dates

  • Please note our 2022 dates listed at https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/

Agenda Items

Note Well: https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/

Roll call

Attendees * Martijn van Beurden * Michael Richardson * Steve Lhomme * Michael Niedermayer * Jérôme Martinez

Regrets * Spencer Dawkins (will be 30 min late)

Accept draft minutes from previous meeting (attached below)

  • Any objections? Please let us know on the mailing list.
  • No objections on the mailing list or on the call.

WG status update

  • draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-00 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists
  • draft-ietf-cellar-codec-07 was posted 2021-10-19, in ID Exists
  • draft-ietf-cellar-control-00 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists
  • draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-18 was posted 2021-11-27, in ID Exists
  • draft-ietf-cellar-flac-02 was posted 2021-11-01, in ID Exists
  • draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-08 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists
  • draft-ietf-cellar-tags-07 was posted 2021-10-09, in ID Exists

Milestone review:

  • Previous status: Jerome is now able to focus on FFV1-v4, since we've published FFV1. ACTION Spencer to send e-mail to DISPATCH when we submit a (small) update. We should wait until we have a bit more text, or bigger issues, to publish as a draft.

  • Are we ready to submit a working group draft for EBML updates (errata plus additions) yet? (https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/ebml-specification/tree/corrections-doc)

    • we can still wait for more feedback/bigger changes before submitting anything - ETA is "after we get Matroska out, so we know everything Matroska needs will be covered"
    • also have some implementation/experience reports.
  • Discussion about what is an Internet Standard.
    • it is actually quite an old format, a lot of implementations.
      • but for many implementations, there will be no updates, but the current files play just fine.

Matroska issues - Discussion on the call

  • merged a few pull requests
  • merged/rewrote the time work, defined different ticks for each time base
    • was trying to sample/presized timestamps. Could work, but would never be backwards compatible. So, removed that part, and simplified the result.
      • got some comments, but it is ready.
      • some bugs, but already fixed.
  • https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/matroska-specification/pull/577 more review needed.
  • https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/matroska-specification/pull/578 generated IANA Considerations.
    • does not generate unassigned for gaps
    • "Any values not mentioned in this table are unassigned"
  • https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/matroska-specification/pull/521 needs to be merged (timebase)
  • https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/matroska-specification/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+project%3Aietf-wg-cellar%2Fmatroska-specification%2F1+-label%3Amatroska-v5+-label%3A%22control+track%22 this is the list of things that need to be fixed before the document can be finished.
    • also: PRs: https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/matroska-specification/pulls?q=is%3Apr+is%3Aopen+project%3Aietf-wg-cellar%2Fmatroska-specification%2F1+-label%3Amatroska-v5+-label%3A%22control+track%22+sort%3Acreated-desc

FLAC issues - Discussion on the call

  • Discussion about Examples, and Numerical Considerations Appendix.
  • Martijn will merge some items and close some dead issues and post a new version soon.

FFV1 v4 issues - Discussion on the call

  • No progress to discuss.

AOB?

  • EBML query from Martijn!

:::success NEXT MEETING 2022-02-22 :tada: :::