Minutes interim-2022-iab-29 2022-10-26
minutes-interim-2022-iab-29-20221026-00

Minutes of the 2022-10-26 IAB Business Meeting and Technical Discussion

1. Administrivia

1.1. Attendance

Present:

Jari Arkko

Deborah Brungard

Lars Eggert (IETF Chair)

Liz Flynn (IETF Secretariat)

Wes Hardaker

Cullen Jennings

Mallory Knodel

Mirja Kühlewind (IAB Chair)

Warren Kumari (IESG Liaison)

Zhenbin Li

Cindy Morgan (IAB Executive Administrative Manager)

Karen O’Donoghue (ISOC Liaison)

Tommy Pauly

Colin Perkins (IRTF Chair)

Sabrina Tanamal (IANA Liaison)

Russ White

Qin Wu

Jiankang Yao

Regrets:

Greg Wood (IETF Director of Communications and Operations)

David Schinazi

Guests:

Roman Danyliw

Alvaro Retana

John Scudder

Éric Vyncke

Rob Wilton

Observers:

Corinne Cath

Adrian Farrel

Mark McFadden

1.2. Agenda bash and announcements

No new items were added to the agenda.

1.3. Meeting Minutes

The following meeting minutes were approved:

• 2022-10-05 business meeting – (draft submitted 2022-10-05)
• 2022-10-12 business meeting – (draft submitted 2022-10-12)

2. Monthly Reports

2.1. IANA Liaison Report

–Begin IANA Liaison Report, Sabrina Tanamal–

IANA Services Liaison Report – 26 October 2022

SLA Deliverables Update:

ICANN met 100% of processing goal times for the September 2022 monthly 
statistics report, exceeding the SLA goal to meet 90% of processing goal 
times. These times include the steps that ICANN has control over and not 
time it is waiting on requesters, document authors or other experts. 
Monthly reports can be found at:

https://www.iana.org/performance/ietf-statistics

Other News:

The next IETF-IANA Group meeting is scheduled on 8 November 2022 during 
IETF 115.

–End IANA Liaison Report, Sabrina Tanamal–

3. IAB Agenda at IETF 115

The IAB discussed their agenda for IETF 115. Cindy Morgan will add a session on draft-arkko-iab-data-minimization-principle to the Sunday agenda and a review of the Human Rights Protocol Considerations (HRPC) Research Group to the Tuesday agenda.

4. IAB Open Agenda at IETF 115

The IAB discussed the IAB Open Meeting agenda for IETF 115.

5. BOF Coverage at IETF 115

The IAB agreed on the following BOF coverage for IETF 115:

• Computing-Aware Networking (CAN)
  • Jari Arkko, Deborah Brungard, and Cullen Jennings will cover
  • Zhenbin Li is IAB shepherd
• – More Instant Messaging Interoperability (MIMI)
  • Jiankang Yao will cover
  • Cullen Jennings is IAB shepherd
• Secure Asset Transfer Protocol (SATP)
  • Cullen Jennings and Zhenbin Li will cover
  • Wes Hardaker is IAB shepherd
• Time Variant Routing (TVR)
  • Jari Arkko and possibly Wes Hardaker will cover
  • Mallory Knodel and Russ White are IAB shepherds
• RADIUS Extensions Reanimated (RADEXTRA)
  • Jari Arkko, Wes Hardaker, and Zhenbin Li are covering

6. Technical Discussion: Different or Same, IP for Internet and Limited Domain

Zhenbin Li delivered a presentation on “Same or Different: IP for Limited Domain and Internet.”

Zhenbin Li said that there are always new innovations based on the argument that the Internet does not work well. In fact, the some IP technologies may only be used in the limited domains and still cannot change resources in the Internet infrastructure like IP address, domain name, AS number, etc.

So Zhenbin Li asked whether the Internet should be divided into Internet vs. Limited Domains or not?

RFC 8799, “Limited Domains and Internet Protocols,” discusses trends around limited domains. Zhenbin Li asked what else can be done; should there be a new document to record the conflict and current thinking, or perhaps a workshop to explore this further?

Russ White said that he thinks it is important to think through the differentiation between local scope and global scope, and agreed that this is an important area for the IAB to think about. He noted this might be relevant to the proposed IDR workshop.

Lars Eggert said that limited domains are being used as a solution to some of the harder Internet problems, but eventually people will want to stitch these limited domains back together into something that resembles the Internet, only using technologies that aren’t designed for that. Lars said that he would prefer to focus on the global Internet; people bring work to the IETF because they want standards and interoperability that is broader than limited domain.

Warren Kumari agreed, saying that many people who cite RFC 8799 think they do not need to worry about security or operational issues, but that is not what the document says.

Éric Vyncke said that there are a few things that will never leave the local domain, but that interoperability is important; it is the reason why enterprises come to the IETF for standardization.

Jari Arkko said he agrees with Lars Eggert, and that the IETF should focus on making the global Internet work correctly rather than focusing on local domains. He noted, however, that a feature of the Internet architecture has always been to allow customization locally. If the local solution needs too much information from the application, then you might have a solution that does not work across a bigger domain. Jari added that the security model has changed, and that the notion that a limited domain is under your control is old fashioned.

Deborah Brungard said that many people misinterpret RFC 8799, but that we should also remember that it was an Independent Submission and does not have IETF consensus. It should be very clear if a protocol is to be for a limited domain.

Zhenbin Li agreed that the IETF should work on technologies for the global Internet, but noted that data center networks are a special case. The operators depend on the vendors for the functionality, and they need interoperability between different vendors. Zhenbin thanked everyone and said he looked forward to continuing the discussion in the future.