Minutes interim-2023-iab-12: Mon 23:15
minutes-interim-2023-iab-12-202303272315-00

Minutes of the 2023-03-28 IAB Business Meeting, Yokohama, Japan

1. Administrivia 

1.1. Attendance 

Present:

  Jari Arkko
  Deborah Brungard 
  Roman Danyliw (IESG Liaison)
  Dhruv Dhody 
  Lars Eggert (IETF Chair)
  Wes Hardaker 
  Cullen Jennings
  Mallory Knodel 
  Suresh Krishnan 
  Mirja Kühlewind (IAB Chair)
  Cindy Morgan (IAB Executive Administrative Manager)
  Karen O'Donoghue (ISOC Liaison)
  Tommy Pauly 
  Colin Perkins (IRTF Chair)
  Alvaro Retana 
  David Schinazi
  Russ White (remote)
  Christopher Wood 
  Jiankang Yao (remote)

Regrets:

  Zhenbin Li 
  Qin Wu 

Guests:

  Dirk Kutscher, DINRG Chair
  Lixia Zhang, DINRG Chair

Observers:

  Carsten Bormann, IRSG
  Dave Oran, IRSG

2. Decentralized Internet Infrastructure Research Group (DINRG) Review

  Dirk Kutscher and Lixia Zhang joined the IAB to discuss the 
  Decentralized Internet Infrastructure Research Group (DINRG).

  DINRG was initially chartered in 2017, during the peak of the 
  blockchain hype cycle. There was a lot of interest at the time from 
  outside communities to do something with blockchain in the IRTF. 
  The IRTF decided to start a group that investigates decentralization 
  opportunities and validates applicability of "decentralization tech" 
  to Internet infrastructure. DINRG initially received different types 
  of contributions, such as:

    • RPKI alternatives on permissioned blockchains
    • Mesh networks with decentralized incentive/compensation on 
      permissioned blockchains
    • IPFS, federated network filesharing (Mastodon etc.)
    • Stellar Consensus Protocol (SCP)
    • GNU Name System
    • Decentralized/Self-Sovereign Identities

  The first phase of DINRG was helpful to gain an understanding of the 
  applicability and constraints of certain technologies. Eventually, a 
  systematic analysis of Internet centralization became more 
  interesting, with new threat model and explorations of technical 
  versus economic root causes.
 
  In 2021, DINRG held a workshop with the goal of articulating the root 
  causes for Internet consolidation. The workshop concluded that the 
  economy of scale drives consolidation, resulting in centralized 
  control over industry sectors. Internet centralization started with 
  companies investing in providing new needed services. The 
  proliferation of free services led to a surveillance economy. Early 
  decentralized apps got consolidated once they became revenue-
  generating businesses because the economy of scale drives towards 
  consolidating all. Security threats further intensified 
  centralization.

  DINRG is currently in the process of rechartering. The plan to change 
  the name to "Decentralization of Internet," simplify the charter, and 
  add work on identifying and mitigating centralization.

  DINRG's main objectives include:

    • Measurement of Internet centralization and the consequential 
      societal impacts;
    • Characterization and assessment of observed Internet 
      centralization;
    • Investigation of the root causes of Internet centralization, and 
      articulation of the impacts from market economy, architecture and 
      protocol designs, as well as government regulations;
    • Exploration of new research topics and technical solutions for 
      decentralized system and application development;
    • Documentation of the outcome from the above efforts; and
    • Recommendations that may help steer Internet away from further 
      consolidation.

  Cullen Jennings asked how this can be turned into something that 
  changes the direction of what the IETF is doing in this space. 	

  Lixia Zhang replied that there is a need for articulation or 
  clarification about the big concepts around centralization and 
  consolidation, such as what get centralization is driven by the power 
  of the players involved versus what is driven by the economy of 
  scale.

  Mirja Kühlewind said that centralization has been a topic in the IAB 
  for a long time, but it's a broad topic where it is really hard to 
  give concrete guidance. She suggested that the rechartered DINRG 
  might benefit from trying to bring in researchers with an economic or 
  policy background.

  Chris Wood asked whether draft-nottingham-avoiding-internet-
  centralization does anything to address the gap. Lixia Zhang replied 
  that Mark Nottingham will be presenting that draft during the DINRG 
  meeting at IETF 116.

  Mallory Knodel asked whether DINRG was the right place to discuss 
  these issues, since the decentralization topic is so big; would it 
  make more sense as an IAB Program rather than an IRTF Research Group?

  Colin Perkins replied that it is definitely worth reaching out to 
  different communities than they have previously, including those 
  concerned with Internet economics and Internet governance. 

  Jari Arkko said that he thinks having a Research Group on this topic 
  as useful, as it has been difficult to make progress on this in the 
  IETF and IAB. Cullen Jennings added that Research Groups can have a 
  different measure of success than an IAB Program.

  Colin Perkins asked what IAB and DINRG activities are likely to 
  complement each other. 

  Jari Arkko replied that there are not any current IAB activities on 
  this, although a number of things have been considered in the past. 
  He asked that the IAB be kept apprised of any developments in this 
  space. 

  Tommy Pauly noted that the Evolvability, Deployability, & 
  Maintainability (EDM) Program has benefited from having IAB members 
  and community members be able to discuss the topic in one place, and 
  suggested that a small IAB Program in addition to the Research Group 
  might be helpful. 

  Colin Perkins asked what the distinction would be between the Program
  and the Research Group. 

  Mallory Knodel said that the Research Group would focus on research. 
  The IAB would need to get a group of people together to figure out 
  what an IAB Program in this space would do, first.

  Dirk Kutscher said there may be different ways to have good synergy. 
  The research community might benefit from the good advice and 
  direction-setting from the IAB, but it would also be helpful for the 
  IAB to have more input from the research community into their 
  architectural work.

  The IAB thanked Dirk Kutscher and Lixia Zhang for the update.