Minutes IETF 118 BOF coordination interim-2023-iesg-20 2023-09-15 15:00
minutes-interim-2023-iesg-20-202309151500-00

IETF 118 BOF Coordination Call
2023-09-15, updated 2023-09-28

Reported by: Cindy Morgan, IETF Secretariat

Additional reference materials available at the datatracker
(https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/bof-requests)

PRESENT

- Jenny Bui
- Roman Danyliw
- Dhruv Dhody
- Martin Duke
- Lars Eggert
- Liz Flynn
- Wes Hardaker
- Cullen Jennings
- Erik Kline
- Mallory Knodel
- Suresh Krishnan
- Mirja Kuehlewind
- Cindy Morgan
- Tommy Pauly
- Colin Perkins
- Alvaro Retana
- Zaheduzzaman Sarker
- David Schinazi
- John Scudder
- Eric Vyncke
- Robert Wilton
- Paul Wouters
- Qin Wu
- Jiankang Yao

REGRETS:

- Andrew Alston
- Jim Guichard
- Murray Kucherawy
- Warren Kumari
- Francesca Palombini
- Christopher Wood

1. BALLOT (Area: GEN)
   Responsible AD: Lars Eggert

Lars Eggert said that the BALLOT proposal is for a WG-forming BOF that would
take the IESG statements "IESG Ballot Procedures" and "DISCUSS Criteria in IESG
Review" and turn them into BCPs with IETF community consensus. He said that he
is skeptical about approving it as a WG-forming BOF for IETF 118, but that it
might be able to go forward as a non-WG-forming BOF.

Lars Eggert noted that the scheduling conflicts for this BOF would be very
difficult, since all of the current Area Directors would want to attend.

Cullen Jennings said that he thinks it would be impossible to get IETF
consensus on the IESG's ballot procedures and Discuss criteria, which is why
they are IESG statements now.

Alvaro Retana added that RFC 2026 would have to be revised in order to proceed
with the BALLOT proposal as it is currently written. He agreed that the
scheduling conflicts would make this difficult to hold during an IETF week.

Lars Eggert suggested that the BOF proposal could be rescoped to remove
anything that would require an update to RFC 2026.

Roman Danyliw suggested that one way to get around the scheduling conflicts
would be to hold a virtual interim BOF. David Schinazi replied that one of the
BOF proponents is vocally opposed to virtual interim BOFs because they
inherently disadvantage people in certain time zones. He suggested that it
could be scheduled with a similar conflict list as GENDISPATCH.

Lars Eggert will ask the proponents to clarify whether they think this will
require an update to RFC 2026 and bring this back to the IESG for a final
decision on whether to proceed with a BOF on 2023-09-28.

On 2023-09-28, the IESG declined the BOF proposal for BALLOT. The
proponents will be offered a slot during the GENAREA meeting at IETF
118 instead.

2. Now Exactly What are they spending Time ON (NEWTON) (Area: GEN)
   Responsible AD: Lars Eggert

Lars Eggert said that the NEWTON BOF proposal is for a WG-forming BOF that
would define metrics to look at how ADs spend their time and analyze whether
the current workload affects the ability of ADs to progress documents in a
timely manner and prevents potential AD candidates from volunteering.

Lars Eggert noted that he had attempted to use software to track how he was
spending his time as an AD, but the data was so inaccurate that it was not
useful. He said that he is not sure whether the overhead required for this
proposal would be worth any benefit that might come out of it.

Roman Danyliw asked what metric the IESG is failing to meet that would
necessitate this kind of tracking. Lars Eggert replied that they want to reduce
the amount of time that ADs spend on things that do not match community
priorities.

Lars Eggert suggested that this BOF proposal be rejected because it is not
clear how this could be a WG, and the only way it would work is if there is no
additional overhead for the ADs. He noted that RASPRG is already looking at
publicly available IETF data to analyze the standards-setting process.

On 2023-09-28, the IESG declined the BOF proposal for NEWTON. The
proponents will be offered a slot during the GENAREA meeting at IETF
118 instead.

3. IP Protocol Stack in Deep Space (DEEPSPACE) (Area: INT)
   Responsible AD: Eric Vyncke

Eric Vyncke said that the DEEPSPACE BOF proposal is for a WG-forming BOF, but
he is not sure whether it should be in the Internet Area because it also
touches on DTN and QUIC.

Zahed Sarker said that he would rather see this conversation happen in DTN. He
would also like to see a gap analysis.

Erik Kline said that he does not see this going forward as a WG-forming BOF,
but that it might be able to be rescoped as a non-WG-forming BOF.

Eric Vyncke will ask the proponents to rescope the proposal for into a
non-WG-forming BOF and bring it back to the IESG for a final decision on
2023-09-28.

On 2023-09-28, Eric Vyncke reported that the BOF proposal for DEEPSPACE
was withdrawn for IETF 118.

4. Detecting Unwanted Location Trackers (DULT) (Area: SEC)
   Responsible AD: Roman Danyliw

Roman Danyliw said that there was a lot of interest in the DULT BOF at IETF 117
and recommended approving the proposal for a WG-forming BOF at IETF 118.

Tommy Pauly said that the proponents are currently going through the mailing
list comments and the recording from IETF 117 and filing GitHub issues against
the draft charter. Mallory Knodel added that a small group is planning to meet
on 2023-09-18 to progress this further.

On 2023-09-28, the IESG approved the BOF proposal for DULT.

5. Secure Patterns for Internet CrEdentials (SPICE) (Area: SEC)
   Responsible AD: Roman Danyliw

Roman Danyliw said that he does not recommend approving the SPICE proposal in
its current form, but that he has spoken to the proponents about rescoping
this. There are a lot of different stakeholders in different spaces and there
is currently not consensus on how to proceed.

Roman Danyliw will work with the proponents to rescope the proposal and bring
it back to the IESG for a final decision on 2023-09-28.

On 2023-09-28, the IESG approved the BOF proposal for SPICE.

6. Key Transparency (KEYTRANS) (Area: SEC)
   Responsible AD: Roman Danyliw

Roman Danyliw said that the KEYTRANS BOF request is a placeholder for a Working
Group that he hopes to be chartered before IETF 118. The charter went out for
external review on 2023-09-15.

On 2023-09-28, the IESG approved the BOF proposal for KEYTRANS.

7. Workload Identity in Multi System Environments (WIMSE) (Area: ART)
   Responsible AD: Francesca Palombini.

Roman Danyliw said that the WIMSE BOF proposal is not clear in its current
form, and that he would like to take the next couple of weeks to work with the
proponents to clarify the proposal. He added that he is not sure whether this
proposal best fits in the SEC Area or the ART Area.

Zahed Sarker suggested the proponents could have a side meeting at IETF 118 to
analyze what concretely what they actually want to do.

Roman Danyliw agreed that a side meeting is one option, but he would like to
work with the proponents in the meantime and bring this back to the IESG for
final decision on 2023-09-28.

On 2023-09-28, the IESG approved the BOF proposal for WIMSE. The BOF
will move from SEC to ART with Francesca Palombini as the shepherding
AD.