CELLAR -- DRAFT AGENDA for Virtual Interim Meeting

| Date | Time | Local Times |
| :-: :-: :-
| 2024-01-23 21:00 Amsterdam | Time Converter | |
| Note | Meeting time is anchored to Amsterdam | |

Administrivia

INFO:

https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2024-cellar-01-cellar
https://github.com/ietf-wg-cellar/chair-notes/tree/master/interim-2024-01
**Note that we're now pointing to the Github repo for chair notes here**

MEETING INFO and WEB CONFERENCE:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2024-cellar-01/session/cellar
https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/interim/?group=b30e4eed-1175-40ff-a505-ec007afd645e

note that chat is now Zulip:
https://zulip.ietf.org/login/#narrow/stream/cellar
but is accessible via meetecho interface.

Shared HedgeDoc for notetaking

Now using the Datatracker assigned notepad at:
https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-interim-2024-cellar-01-cellar

• Note that if you log in to the IETF datatracker, you'll be able to
  edit/clarify/correct these notes, add your name to attendee lists,
  etc.

• Please ask Michael or Spencer if you have questions.

2024 virtual interim meeting dates

• Please note our 2024 dates listed at
  https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/cellar/meetings/

Agenda Items

Note Well:

https://www.ietf.org/about/note-well/
Please be KIND to each other.

Roll call

Attendees

• Spencer Dawkins
• Steve Lhomme
• Michael Richardson
• Dave Rice
• Jerome Martinez
• Reto Kromer
• Martijn van Beurden

Accept draft minutes from previous meeting

MINUTES ARE AT: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/interim-2023-cellar-09/materials/minutes-interim-2023-cellar-09-202310241900-00

• No comments, minutes are accepted

WG status update

| Draft | State | Date Posted | Plans |
| :- :- :- :-
| draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs-03 | Expired | 2023-07-02 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-codec-11 | Expired | 2023-07-02 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-control-03 | Expired | 2023-07-02 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-ffv1-v4-21 | ID Exists | 2024-01-17 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-flac-14 | IESG Evaluation::AD Followup | 2024-01-14 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-matroska-21 | RFC Ed Queue | 2023-10-22 | |
| draft-ietf-cellar-tags-12 | ID-Exists | 2023-10-22 | |

It would be nice if Moritz could be the lead for cellar-codec?

Milestone review:

• draft-ietf-cellar-flac-14 - All discusses cleared, but we have a new
  normative reference. Details below.
• Update milestones, adding draft-ietf-cellar-chapter-codecs and
  updating dates for remaining docs, right?

Next steps for additional Matroska specifications (three of which are expired)

• We're still going to do these, right?
• Yes, Steve will regenerate expired drafts

• Possible dates?

  • draft-ietf-cellar-tags should be fastest - 2024-12?
  • draft-ietf-cellar-codec should be next, and is important -
    2025-06?
  • Could different documents have different leads?
  • Could we have multiple codec documents (for different codecs)?
    Perhaps one document for existing major codecs? MPEG 1/2/4 AVC
    and HEVC, AV1 (perhaps in another document) MPEG 1/2 Audio Layer
    1/2/3 AAC PCM OPUS Vorbis AC3 DTS FLAC (FLAC has Matroska
    mapping in its own RFC already!) Text SSA/ASS SRT WebVTT

• Spencer and Michael will update the milestones in datatracker

FLAC IESG ballot

• As requested by Roman, [RFC2083] changed from informative to
  normative reference. This gave the document an additional downref.
• The requirement is that normative references from a higher-maturity
  specification (in our case, Propose Standard) to a lower-maturity
  specification (in our case, Informational) must be identified in the
  Last Call announcement.
• After a downref has been evaluated as part of a Last Call for any
  document, the reference can be added to the downref registry,
  but [RFC2083] isn't in that registry (yet)
• [RFC 8067] (BCP 97) relaxes this requirement
• Murray is checking with the IESG to see how he should proceed
• No action needed at this time from the working group or from Martijn

New revision for FFV1v4

• Email thread is here
• Dave is providing the current state of open items in v4
• Jerome is author of several of the pull requests

• Do we have content in the specification yet?

  • Documenting workarounds in FFV1v1-3
  • Getting rid of cruft in earlier versions is worth publishing
  • We do need feedback from Michael Niedermayer (and he popped into
    the call at the perfect time)
  • We are looking at potential changes that break backwards
    compatibility - Jerome thinks we should do this only once, and
    not until we have new features in v4
  • v4 isn't urgent - v3 is stable and works well
  • We need to understand the GPU bottlenecks in v3 to improve v4

• Feedback from NTTW

  • FFV1 and Matroska potentially preferred specifications

Update on patch for FFv1 versions 1-3?

• Jérôme said at our last meeting that we have a proposed patch for
  FFv1 versions 1-3 (odd width or height, and chroma subsampling) that
  he needs to review again, and it may require an errata.
• there's a discussion we need to translate into a specification
  language
• Jerome created a FFmpeg trac ticket (he initially thought it was a
  FFmpeg bug with a theoretical usage only and without impact on the
  spec): https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/5548
• But forgot to create a FFV1 ticket when Michael indicated that it
  could require a spec change, so here it is:
  https://github.com/FFmpeg/FFV1/issues/274

AOB?

• Action - Spencer will check the meetecho links in the atatracker for
  2024-01 and 2024-04 meetings before the next meeting

Next meeting is 2024-02-27.