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Narrative Minutes interim-2019-iesg-02 2019-01-24 15:00

Meeting Narrative Minutes Internet Engineering Steering Group (iesg) IETF
Date and time 2019-01-24 15:00
Title Narrative Minutes interim-2019-iesg-02 2019-01-24 15:00
State (None)
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Last updated 2024-02-23

Narrative minutes for the 2019-01-24 IESG Teleconference

These are not an official record of the meeting.
Narrative Scribe: Liz Flynn, Secretariat

1. Administrivia
1.1 Roll call

Ignas Bagdonas (Equinix) /  Operations and Management Area
Deborah Brungard (AT&T) / Routing Area
Ben Campbell (Oracle) / Applications and Real-Time Area
Alissa Cooper (Cisco) / IETF Chair, General Area
Michelle Cotton (ICANN) / IANA Liaison
Roman Danyliw (CERT/SEI) / Incoming Security Area
Spencer Dawkins (Wonder Hamster Internetworking) / Transport Area
Liz Flynn (AMS) / IETF Secretariat, Narrative Scribe
Sandy Ginoza (AMS) / RFC Editor Liaison
Ted Hardie (Google) / IAB Chair
Benjamin Kaduk (Akamai Technologies) / Security Area
Suresh Krishnan (Kaloom) / Internet Area
Mirja Kuehlewind (ETH Zurich) / Transport Area
Warren Kumari (Google) / Operations and Management Area
Barry Leiba (Huawei) / Incoming Applications and Real-Time Area
Terry Manderson (ICANN) / Internet Area
Alexey Melnikov / Applications and Real-Time Area
Cindy Morgan (AMS) / IETF Secretariat
Alexa Morris (AMS) / IETF Secretariat
Eric Rescorla (Mozilla) / Security Area
Adam Roach (Mozilla) / Applications and Real-Time Area
Jeff Tantsura (Apstra) / IAB Liaison
Martin Vigoureux (Nokia) / Routing Area
Amy Vezza (AMS) / IETF Secretariat
Magnus Westerlund (Ericsson) / Incoming Transport Area

Heather Flanagan / RFC Series Editor
Alvaro Retana (Huawei) / Routing Area
Eric Vyncke (Cisco) / Incoming Internet Area
Portia Wenze-Danley (ISOC) / Interim LLC Executive Director

Luigi Iannone
Marie-Jose Montpetit
Greg Wood

1.2 Bash the agenda

Amy: Does anyone want to add anything new to today's agenda?

Ekr: I sent mail about adding an ETSI response, so if that didn't get added,
please add it.

Amy: As a management item?

Ekr: Wherever you think appropriate. Also I found a DE for 8411.

Amy: Okay, we will take that up as a management item at the end.

1.3 Approval of the minutes of past telechats

Amy: Anyone have an objection to the minutes from the January 10 teleconference
being approved? Hearing no objection, so those are approved and we will get
those posted in the public archive. I also saw final narrative minutes; does
anyone have an objection to those? Hearing no objection, those will be posted
as well.

1.4 List of remaining action items from last telechat

     o Eric Rescorla to find designated experts for RFC 8411 [IANA

Amy: This will be taken up as a management item at the end. Ekr, I'm assuming
the next items for mikey-payloads are still in progress?

Ekr: I am in fact working on it but have not finished yet.

     o Eric Rescorla to find designated experts for RFC 6509
       (mikey-payloads) [IANA #1121057].

     o Eric Rescorla to find designated experts for RFC 6043
       (mikey-payloads) [IANA #1121239].

     o Eric Rescorla to find designated experts for RFC 6267
       (mikey-payloads) [IANA #1121240].

     o Eric Rescorla to find designated experts for RFC 6309
       (mikey-payloads) [IANA #1121241].

     o Alissa Cooper to draft text informing the community about the ongoing
     discussion with the WG chairs about community relations, including
     information about what avenues are open to community members for
     escalating issues.

Alissa: I did this, I think, shortly after the last telechat.

Amy: We will mark that as done.

Alissa: There is a question there though; I keep forgetting to look back at the
thread. Who has the action to summarize what we learned from the engagement
with the wgchairs?

Amy: I don't think we have an action item assigned to anyone. Do you want to
talk about that?

Alissa: I believe this was Deborah's initiative, perhaps Deborah would like to
take on the action?

Deborah: Yes, I can take it on.

Alissa: Thanks.

Amy: Deborah to summarize discussion with wgchairs on this subject? We'll put
together a new action item.

     o Alvaro Retana to send email to the IESG with proposed re-labeling of
       scheduling conflicts.

Amy: Alvaro could not be here today.

     o Alexey Melnikov to find designated experts experts for RFC 5435
       [IANA #1132764].

Amy: This will be a management item at the end.

     o Benjamin Kaduk/Eric Rescorla to find designated experts for RFC 6844
       [IANA #1133642].

Amy: This will be a management item at the end.

     o Warren Kumari to find designated experts for RFC-ietf-dnsop-attrleaf
       [IANA #1133794].

     o Warren Kumari to find designated experts for RFC-ietf-dnsop-session-
       signal [IANA #1133795].

     o Warren Kumari to find designated experts for RFC-ietf-dnsop-dns-
       capture-format [IANA #1133796].

Amy: The previous three for Warren will all be management items at the end of
the call so they are provisionally done.

     o Suresh Krishnan to discuss naming experts for the registries created
       by draft-irtf-icnrg-ccnxsemantics with Allison Mankin.

Suresh: That's still ongoing.

     o Alissa Cooper to send a message to the community about plenary
     transcripts for the Q&A sections of the plenary (IAB, LLC Board, and IESG).

Alissa: What was I telling people about this?

Amy: I think this came out of the discussion that we will only be transcribing
the Q&A sections from the plenary.

Alissa: I have not done that.

Amy: I think it came from last week's informal.

     o Ben Campbell to write up text on the IESG's expectations regarding
     conflicts of interest and the disclosure of funding sources.

Amy: This also came out of the informal last week.

Ben: I have not done either of mine yet but I'm thinking about them.

     o Ben Campbell to send the email on what updates means to the IETF

     o Warren Kumari and Spencer Dawkins to develop the spherical routing topic.

Amy: This is also from the informal from last week.

Warren: We're working on it.

Spencer: The thing worth mentioning here is that it's starting to touch a lot
of places like the IAB and IRTF and getting visibility of this to the larger
community soon is probably a good thing.

Amy: Okay, so I'm going to mark that as in progress.

     o Spencer Dawkins to discuss changes to the HotRFC sessions with Aaron
     Falk and implement with the Secretariat.

Spencer: That's done.

2. Protocol actions
2.1 WG submissions
2.1.1 New items

 o draft-ietf-dime-doic-rate-control-10  - IETF stream
   Diameter Overload Rate Control (Proposed Standard)
   Token: Ben Campbell

Amy: I have an open position for Ace. Did you have a position for this document
or not?

Warren: Sorry, no, if I don't have a position today I don't have a position.

Amy: We currently have no Discusses so unless there's an objection it looks
like this one is approved.

Michelle: We did send something out for expert review related to this document.
One expert did approve the registrations but he also said we'd better see what
the other expert has to say, and we have not heard from the other expert. Just
to let you know.

Amy: There are no notes in the tracker. Does it need any?

Ben: It doesn't need any notes that I know of but I think we are going to need
a document update.

Amy: This will go into Approved, Announcement to be sent, Revised ID Needed.

 o draft-ietf-mile-xmpp-grid-09  - IETF stream
   Using XMPP for Security Information Exchange (Proposed Standard)
   Token: Alexey Melnikov

Amy: I have a number of Discusses, do we need to discuss those today?

Alexey: I don't think so. I need help from the WG and editors to reply to
various issues. I tried to chime in on SASL indication stuff which I knew
about. General note: this document will need a pass to make sure it's either a
full informational and just referencing existing requirements or if the
document has extra requirements. I'll talk to the WG about that. This will
definitely need a new revision.

Amy: We're going to put this into IESG Evaluation with a substate of Revised ID
Needed and we'll move on. Thanks.

 o draft-ietf-sidrops-rtr-keying-03  - IETF stream
   Router Keying for BGPsec (Proposed Standard)
   Token: Warren Kumari

Amy: I have two Discusses in the tracker. Do we need to discuss those today?

Warren: I don't really think so, I think they're just things the authors need
to address. Something that I guess I'll mention is for the hot-swap router
case, the reason that's in there is often when you're hot-swapping around, or
it's kind of an emergency, so having a solution where you can copy stuff from
one version to anther and not have to have your router down while you're
copying keys, waiting for them to propagate, etc. I don't know if that makes
sense to people who had that as a question.

Ben: I don't think our objection was that it was included, I think it was along
the lines that it's included as The Way, without mentioning there might be
other ways to solve the problem that are less fraught.

Ekr: That's basically my position as well. This document kind of feels like it
was written in 2009 in terms of how it reasons about operational practices.

Warren: Okay. I think the rest of the comments are relatively easy to address
for the authors. Some of it is also recognizing that in an emergency, operators
do what operators do.

Amy: Is this going to require a revised ID?

Warren: Yes. Thank you.

 o draft-ietf-lisp-rfc8113bis-02  - IETF stream
   Locator/ID Separation Protocol (LISP): Shared Extension Message &
   IANA Registry for Packet Type Allocations (Proposed Standard)
   Token: Deborah Brungard

Amy: I have no discusses for this document, so unless anyone has an objection
it looks like this is approved. Hearing no objection to approving this
document. I have no notes in the tracker. Does it need notes?

Deborah: We'll do it as Point Raised; I want to double check on some of the

Amy: Okay, this will go into Approved, Announcement to be Sent, Point Raised,
Writeup Needed.

2.1.2 Returning items

 o draft-ietf-dmarc-rfc7601bis-05  - IETF stream
   Message Header Field for Indicating Message Authentication Status
   (Proposed Standard)
   Token: Alexey Melnikov

Amy: All the Discusses for this document have been cleared so unless there's an
objection it looks like this one is approved.

Alexey: Yes please!

Amy I have no notes, are there any needed? Can it go?

Alexey: I think this can go.

2.2 Individual submissions
2.2.1 New items


2.2.2 Returning items


2.3 Status changes
2.3.1 New items


2.3.2 Returning items


3. Document actions
3.1 WG submissions
3.1.1 New items


3.1.2 Returning items


3.2 Individual submissions via AD
3.2.1 New items


3.2.2 Returning items


3.3 Status changes
3.3.1 New items


3.3.2 Returning items


3.4 IRTF and Independent Submission stream documents
3.4.1 New items


3.4.2 Returning items


4. Working Group actions
4.1 WG creation
4.1.1 Proposed for IETF review

 o GitHub Integration and Tooling (git)

Amy: There are currently no blocks. Does anyone have an objection to this going
out for external review?

Ekr: I just discovered it's not named WUGH anymore and that makes me sad.

Alissa: We thought it would be better to give it a name that some fraction of
the community knows how to pronounce. There are some edits that have arisen
from the IESG review which I would love to apply before it goes out for
external review, if that's possible.

Amy: Absolutely. It sounds like external review is approved pending edits from
you, Alissa, so you can send us a ticket when that's ready.

4.1.2 Proposed for approval


4.2 WG rechartering
4.2.1 Under evaluation for IETF review


4.2.2 Proposed for approval


5. IAB news we can use

Deborah: I don't think so. They now publish the agenda and I don't think
there's really anything to make note of.

6. Management issues

6.1 Designated experts for RFC 5435  [IANA #1132764] (Alexey Melnikov)

Amy Any objection to naming Barry and Alexey the experts for this?

Alexey: We're the editors of the original RFC so that made most sense.

Amy: I'm hearing no objection, so you have the job. We'll send notification to

6.2 Continuing Agenda Experimentation (Liz Flynn)

Liz presented several options for the structure of the 104 agenda. She will
attempt to create some unstructured time on Wednesday before the plenary, which
will stay at its usual time. After session requests close on February 8 she
will have a better idea of how much flexibility is possible.

6.3 Designated Experts for DNSOP Documents (Warren Kumari)

Amy: Warren has proposed designated experts for three DNSOP documents. The
first is for RFC-ietf-dnsop-attrleaf and he has proposed Dave Crocker and
Frederico A C Neves. Any objection to those folks? Hearing no objection.

Next is for RFC-ietf-dnsop-session-signal and he has suggested Ted Lemon, Sara
Dickinson, and John Dickinson. Any objection there? Hearing no objection.

The last one is for RFC-ietf-dnsop-dns-capture-format and has identified Jim
Hague, Sara Dickinson, and John Dickinson for that registry. Any objection
there? No objections, excellent. We will get those messages sent to IANA.

6.5 [IANA#1130107] Approve two requests for ifType name in
draft-ietf-ccamp-mw-yang (Deborah Brungard)

Deborah: No objections or concerns. I'll let Michelle know it's approved. I
emailed the IESG list to let everyone know what it was about.

Amy: Deborah, I'm hearing no objection to that way forward. You'll take care of
emailing IANA?

Michelle: I think it'd be cleaner to come as an approval from the IESG since
this is not something we've had to do in a really long time.

Amy: So is that like one of our official notes that we send you, Michelle?

Michelle: That would be perfect, just indicating the IESG has approved these
two requests.

Amy: Okay; we'll send an official note.

6.6 Approve PHB as DE for RFC 6844 registry (Benjamin Kaduk)

Amy: The next management item is to approve a designated expert for this
registry. Benjamin wants to approve Phillip Hallam-Baker. Any objection to
approving PHB in this capacity? Hearing no objection so we will get that note
sent off to IANA.

6.7 ETSI Liaison Response (Eric Rescorla)

Amy: Ekr, you added this but we didn't find email to support it. You need to
talk about it a little bit I think.

Ekr: I sent a copy of the liaison response to the IESG list. This is about what
I expected, namely we can do whatever we want but we'll change the name. I
don't know if people have other opinions. My plan was to forward this to the
IETF list because people asked about it and do nothing else. Anyone propose
doing anything else?

Benjamin: Does it need to be formally entered into the Datatracker as a liaison
statement before we can usefully forward it to the IETF list?

Ekr: I thought we didn't technically have a liaison with ETSI.

Alissa: We've been tracking these in the tracker. You can just send it to
statements at

Ekr: So I should just forward it there.

Alissa: Someone from AMS can tell us that's wrong but I think that's right.

Ekr: Okay. I will do that right now. Does that mean it will also go to the IETF
list or do I have to send it separately?

Alissa: You have to send it separately, they don't go to the IETF list

Ekr: Do I need to wait for something to happen or should I just send it to the
IETF list?

Alissa: I think it's better to send a link than an attachment. Maybe wait until
it gets posted and then send a link.

Ekr: Okay. Can the secretariat let me know when it's posted?

Benjamin: I think an email gets sent automatically to the IESG list.

6.8 Designated Expert for RFC 8411 (Eric Rescorla)

Ekr: I've identified Jim Schaad.

Amy: Any objection to naming Jim Schaad as the designated expert for RFC 8411?
Hearing no objection, so we will get that note sent to IANA.

7. Any Other Business (WG News, New Proposals, etc.)

Amy: Any other business to discuss before executive session?

Benjamin: It's looking pretty likely we'll have a RATS charter on the next
call. We have a pretty solid level of support on the mailing list for the
current charter text.

Amy: Excellent. Any other news? Okay, with that we will ask liaisons and guests
to drop off for executive session.

6.4 Executive Session: LLC Board Slate Confirmation (Adam Roach)