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Narrative Minutes interim-2020-iesg-12 2020-05-21 14:00

Meeting Narrative Minutes Internet Engineering Steering Group (iesg) IETF
Date and time 2020-05-21 14:00
Title Narrative Minutes interim-2020-iesg-12 2020-05-21 14:00
State (None)
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Last updated 2024-02-23

Narrative minutes for the 2020-05-21 IESG Teleconference

These are not an official record of the meeting.
Narrative Scribe: Liz Flynn, Secretariat

1. Administrivia
1.1 Roll call

Deborah Brungard (AT&T) / Routing Area
Jenny Bui (AMS) / IETF Secretariat
Alissa Cooper (Cisco) / IETF Chair, General Area
Michelle Cotton (ICANN) / IANA Liaison
Roman Danyliw (CERT/SEI) / Security Area
Martin Duke / F5 Networks Inc / Transport Area
Liz Flynn (AMS) / IETF Secretariat, Narrative Scribe
Sandy Ginoza (AMS) / RFC Editor Liaison
Wes Hardaker (USC/ISI) / IAB Liaison
Benjamin Kaduk (Akamai Technologies) / Security Area
Erik Kline / Loon LLC / Internet Area
Murray Kucherawy / Facebook / Applications and Real-Time Area
Mirja Kuehlewind (Ericsson) / IAB Chair
Warren Kumari (Google) / Operations and Management Area
Barry Leiba (Futurewei Technologies) / Applications and Real-Time Area
Cindy Morgan (AMS) / IETF Secretariat
Alvaro Retana (Futurewei Technologies) / Routing Area
Amy Vezza (AMS) / IETF Secretariat
Magnus Westerlund (Ericsson) / Transport Area
Robert Wilton / Cisco Systems / Operations and Management Area

Jay Daley / IETF Executive Director
Martin Vigoureux (Nokia) / Routing Area
Eric Vyncke (Cisco) / Internet Area

Tim Costello
Mike Jones
Brenda Lyons
Greg Wood

1.2 Bash the agenda

Amy: Does anyone want to add anything new to today's agenda? Any other changes?
I'm hearing nothing new.

1.3 Approval of the minutes of past telechats

Amy: Does anyone have an objection to the minutes of the May 7 teleconference
being approved? Hearing no objection. Does anyone have an objection to the
narrative minutes of the May 7 meeting? Hearing no objection, so those are
approved as well.

1.4 List of remaining action items from last telechat

     o Roman Danyliw to draft text to be posted on about reporting
       protocol vulnerabilities via an email alias and possible procedures
       on how to assign triage resources.

Roman: Still in progress. I posted the initial text and I appreciate everyone's
feedback. I'm integrating feedback and we're close; I'll put this on the agenda
for the next informal.

     o Martin Vigoureux with Wes, and Alvaro to work on some
       mechanism to obtain wider or private feedback from people who are
       disenfranchised; anonymous flagging of offensive emails to inform
       leadership; more opportunities for private feedback.

Wes: Still in progress.

     o Alvaro Retana and Barry Leiba, with Warren Kumari, Alexey Melnikov,
       Martin Vigoureux, and Roman Danyliw to work on more transparency in
       the Datatracker about how long each phase of doc process takes / New
       datatracker flag to indicate who has the ball: area directors,
       authors, or chairs.

Barry: In progress.

     o Warren Kumari and Alexey Melnikov to add keyword tags to WG charters
       to identify specs that pertain to some general concept.

Warren: Greg has made a webpage and we've added some additional text which I
need to review. Hopefully in a couple of days there will be something for
people to look at. If people don't mind let's keep this item as in progress or
I'm likely to forget.

     o Alvaro Retana to work on a framework for analyzing new proposals.

Alvaro: Still in progress.

     o Warren Kumari to work on acknowledging shepherds, directorate
       reviewers in a more standardized/formal way.

Warren: In progress.

     o Eric Vyncke to write up draft text on Special Interest
       Groups and send to the IESG for comment.

Amy: Eric V could not be here; we'll keep this in progress for him.

     o Alvaro Retana, Benjamin Kaduk, and Murray Kucherawy to look at
       updating the I-D Checklist.

Murray: I've taken a second pass at merging the guidelines with the checklist;
I'm waiting for Ben and Alvaro to take a look and give me some comments. The
only thing I have to do is Sandy has given us some stuff they'd like included,
and I'm working on that too.

Michelle: Just to let you know, I'm also taking a look to see if there's
anything IANA related that would help there.

Ben: I think there might be. I had taken a look at some of the stuff last night
and there was a note about removing the IANA considerations section even if
there are no changes, which didn't seem like it matched up with what you'd sent
to the authors in the last call review, so I suggested a change there.

Murray: Anyway, Amy, in progress.

     o Eric Vyncke (with Suresh Krishnan) to write a draft of an IoT
       Systems charter.

Amy: Eric V could not be here; we'll keep this in progress for him.

     o Erik Kline to find designated experts for the IPv6 Low Power
       Personal Area Network Parameters registries [IANA #1163481].
       (Deadline: June 1, 2020).

Amy: This is still waiting for the June 1 deadline.

     o Warren Kumari to find designated experts for RFC-ietf-anima-
       bootstrapping-keyinfra [IANA #1169514].

Amy: This is on the agenda as a management item.

     o All ADs (and Colin for the IRTF) to go through the keywords
       Google Sheet and curate the list of keywords per working group
       in their area.

Amy: This is for everyone so if you have not yet done that, please do so.

Warren: People can update it whenever they like; the more the merrier, and the
sooner the better.

2. Protocol actions
2.1 WG submissions
2.1.1 New items

 o draft-ietf-ospf-mpls-elc-13  - IETF stream
   Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth
   Using OSPF (Proposed Standard)
   Token: Alvaro Retana

Amy: I have a Discuss in the tracker; do we need to discuss that today?

Alvaro: No, I don't think so. The author has already engaged with Ben. We will
need a Revised ID for this.

Ben: If you don't mind, could we talk about it for a minute or two? I only got
to glance at the responses but it sounds like there's not really an issue here
because this is not a pre-existing behavior and we do actually need to say
something, so any change would be a minor wording tweak to say routers that
support this specification must do this copying or something like that. I don't
have a great sense yet.

Alvaro: Correct. The behavior of propagating across area boundaries is optional
in general. This is a flag that is carried in some TLD somewhere. That utility
is not automatically populated.

Ben: I see.

Alvaro: Which is why it's a "MUST." The other thing that Peter said, which I
thought was part of your question, is what happens if you don't do it? The ABR
doesn't support this and everyone else does. What he said, and I think there
could be some room for a couple more sentences clarifying, if you don't then
it's pretty much equivalent to someone not advertising they support the bit. So
the other area wouldn't know that whoever is the originator supports that bit.
So it would pretty much render the enhancement useless in the other area.

Ben: Right. So you think there might be some room for adding a little

Alvaro: Yeah, I think so.

Ben: I think I'm in the same boat but I don't think I'm at a Discuss-level 'you
must have more clarification.' Hopefully I can express that in email.

Alvaro: I'll work with them too. Hopefully we can add something that's clear.

Ben: Sounds good. Thank you.

Amy: Okay, so we'll put this as IESG Evaluation, Revised ID Needed.

 o draft-ietf-isis-mpls-elc-12  - IETF stream
   Signaling Entropy Label Capability and Entropy Readable Label Depth
   Using IS-IS (Proposed Standard)
   Token: Alvaro Retana

Amy: I have a Discuss in the tracker; do we need to discuss that today?

Alvaro: This one, no, I don't think we do. This is the same one as the other
one. This will also require a Revised ID.

 o draft-ietf-httpbis-header-structure-18  - IETF stream
   Structured Field Values for HTTP (Proposed Standard)
   Token: Barry Leiba

Amy: I have some Discusses; do we need to discuss those today?

Barry: The authors are responding and the ADs are responding, so please put
this in Revised ID Needed.

Amy: That will go into substate Revised ID Needed, thank you.

2.1.2 Returning items


2.2 Individual submissions
2.2.1 New items


2.2.2 Returning items


2.3 Status changes
2.3.1 New items


2.3.2 Returning items


3. Document actions
3.1 WG submissions
3.1.1 New items

 o draft-ietf-httpbis-client-hints-14  - IETF stream
   HTTP Client Hints (Experimental)
   Token: Barry Leiba

Amy: There are no Discusses in the tracker, so unless there's an objection now
it looks like this one is approved.

Barry: This should be in Point Raised; the authors haven't responded to
yesterday's reviews yet.

Amy: Point Raised is the one we took away, right? So that will be AD Followup.

Barry: Yes, thank you.

 o draft-ietf-opsawg-sdi-11  - IETF stream
   Secure Device Install (Informational)
   Token: Robert Wilton

Amy: I have some Discusses; do we need to discuss those today?

Rob: I think it would be useful to discuss Ben's. I'm going to hand it over to
Warren. I think Roman's one has been covered by the latest updates.

Warren: Thank you. Yes I think I've done Roman's, although there's another
comment to add as well. I'd also like to thank people for dealing with all the
nits and editorial stuff. Sorry it was so messy. On Ben's Discuss, I really do
think that this is something that will be useful. It is an ongoing problem
which people have, and a lot of operators don't want to deploy a much larger
overreaching solution like anima and other things. This is a tactical solution.
I fully agree though that it does need some more text on being clear on the
limit and scope of what it's trying to do. It really is just trying to
incrementally protect the contents of the config, not protect the device, not
protect the device once it's running. It's just a simple technical short easy
thing. It needs words to make sure it's not overselling itself. Hopefully, if
Ben is open to this, he can help me figure out some words to not overreach?

Ben: I can put that on my to-do list. I've got a couple of other things in
front of it, so no hard guarantees on timeline but I'm happy to give it a shot.

Warren: Thank you. I'll try and create some text too.

Ben: There's a reason I put the first comment in the comment section; it was
deliberately not in the Discuss section. Just my opinion.

Warren: We'll need a Revised ID for this one.

3.1.2 Returning items


3.2 Individual submissions via AD
3.2.1 New items

 o draft-ietf-rtcweb-sdp-12  - IETF stream
   Annotated Example SDP for WebRTC (Informational)
   Token: Murray Kucherawy

Amy: I have a couple of Discusses; do we need to discuss those today?

Murray: I don't think so; Ted Hardie, the shepherd, has been pretty active so
far in responding to stuff. This is just AD Followup.

 o draft-hodges-webauthn-registries-08  - IETF stream
   Registries for Web Authentication (WebAuthn) (Informational)
   Token: Benjamin Kaduk

Amy: I have a Discuss; do we need to discuss it today?

Ben: I don't believe so; I think it's a pretty straightforward request and the
natural thing to do. I'll work with the authors to get some text in on that. I
believe Mike is on the call; if he disagrees and wants to jump in, please do so.

Mike Jones: I'd be glad to work with Jeff to add the change controller line to
the registries. I believe that's the fix.

Amy: Is that going to require a Revised ID?

Ben: Yes.

3.2.2 Returning items


3.3 Status changes
3.3.1 New items


3.3.2 Returning items


3.4 IRTF and Independent Submission stream documents
3.4.1 New items

 o conflict-review-ucarion-json-type-definition-00
   IETF conflict review for draft-ucarion-json-type-definition
     JSON Type Definition (ISE: Experimental)
   Token: Barry Leiba

Amy: I have no discusses, so unless there's an objection now, this no-problem
message can go back to the ISE.

Barry: Yes.

Amy: Great, we will get that sent out.

3.4.2 Returning items


4. Working Group actions
4.1 WG creation
4.1.1 Proposed for IETF review

 o Multiplexed Application Substrate over QUIC Encryption (masque)

Amy: There are no blocks for sending this charter for external review, so
unless there's an objection now the external review has been approved.

Martin D: There are a couple of minor edits that I still want to do, but it can
go after that.

Amy: Okay. This is Approved, Pending Edits, so let us know when those are done.

4.1.2 Proposed for approval


4.2 WG rechartering
4.2.1 Under evaluation for IETF review


4.2.2 Proposed for approval


5. IAB news we can use

Alvaro: No, I don't think there's any news this week to share.

6. Management issues

6.1 Designated Expert for draft-ietf-anima-bootstrapping-keyinfra [IANA
#1169514] (Warren Kumari)

Amy: Warren has designated Michael Richardson as the designated expert for this
registry. Any objection to approving him? Hearing none, so we'll send note to

7. Any Other Business (WG News, New Proposals, etc.)


6.2 Executive Session: IETF 108 Registration (Alissa)