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Narrative Minutes interim-2020-iesg-15 2020-06-25 14:00

Meeting Narrative Minutes Internet Engineering Steering Group (iesg) IETF
Date and time 2020-06-25 14:00
Title Narrative Minutes interim-2020-iesg-15 2020-06-25 14:00
State (None)
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Last updated 2024-02-23

Narrative minutes for the 2020-06-25 IESG Teleconference

These are not an official record of the meeting.
Narrative Scribe: Liz Flynn, Secretariat

1. Administrivia
1.1 Roll call

Deborah Brungard (AT&T) / Routing Area
Jenny Bui (AMS) / IETF Secretariat
Alissa Cooper (Cisco) / IETF Chair, General Area
Michelle Cotton (ICANN) / IANA Liaison
Roman Danyliw (CERT/SEI) / Security Area
Martin Duke / F5 Networks Inc / Transport Area
Liz Flynn (AMS) / IETF Secretariat, Narrative Scribe
Sandy Ginoza (AMS) / RFC Editor Liaison
Wes Hardaker (USC/ISI) / IAB Liaison
Benjamin Kaduk (Akamai Technologies) / Security Area
Erik Kline / Loon LLC / Internet Area
Murray Kucherawy / Facebook / Applications and Real-Time Area
Warren Kumari (Google) / Operations and Management Area
Barry Leiba (Futurewei Technologies) / Applications and Real-Time Area
Cindy Morgan (AMS) / IETF Secretariat
Alvaro Retana (Futurewei Technologies) / Routing Area
Amy Vezza (AMS) / IETF Secretariat
Martin Vigoureux (Nokia) / Routing Area
Eric Vyncke (Cisco) / Internet Area
Magnus Westerlund (Ericsson) / Transport Area
Robert Wilton / Cisco Systems / Operations and Management Area

Jay Daley / IETF Executive Director
Mirja Kuehlewind (Ericsson) / IAB Chair

Colin Perkins / IRTF Chair

Annabelle Backman
Brenda Lyons
Tommy Pauly
Yaron Sheffer
Greg Wood

1.2 Bash the agenda

Amy: Does anyone want to add anything new to today's agenda? Any other changes?
Hearing none.

1.3 Approval of the minutes of past telechats

Amy: Does anyone object to the minutes of the June 11 teleconference being
approved? Hearing none. Does anyone object to the approval of the narrative
minutes from June 11? Hearing none. And does anyone have an objection to
approving the minutes from the BOF Coordination teleconference from June 15?
Hearing none. Those are all approved.

1.4 List of remaining action items from last telechat

     o Roman Danyliw to draft text to be posted on about reporting
       protocol vulnerabilities via an email alias and possible procedures
       on how to assign triage resources.

Roman: In progress. Let's put this on the agenda for the informal for next week.

     o Martin Vigoureux with Wes, and Alvaro to work on some
       mechanism to obtain wider or private feedback from people who are
       disenfranchised; anonymous flagging of offensive emails to inform
       leadership; more opportunities for private feedback.

Wes: We circulated the text on the IESG list and everyone agreed we only needed
to do the web form. The next step is looking toward the tools team, unless
people want to have a longer discussion on an informal.

Alvaro: Jay pointed at the tool the LLC is using as a way to maybe do the same
thing. I thought maybe we were going to look at that instead of doing the form
ourselves. We'll need to follow up with Jay and go from there. Keep this in

Wes: It looks like there's a cost associated with that service so we should
look at what budget that might come out of and who should pay for it for us to
make use of it as well. Alvaro, if you're going to write him, it would be good
to get that clarified as well.

     o Alvaro Retana and Barry Leiba, with Warren Kumari, Alexey Melnikov,
       Martin Vigoureux, and Roman Danyliw to work on more transparency in
       the Datatracker about how long each phase of doc process takes / New
       datatracker flag to indicate who has the ball: area directors,
       authors, or chairs.

Barry: Still in progress, but it's stalled a bit.

     o Warren Kumari to work on acknowledging shepherds, directorate
       reviewers in a more standardized/formal way.

In progress.

     o Eric Vyncke to write up draft text on Special Interest
       Groups and send to the IESG for comment.

Eric V: In progress.

     o Alvaro Retana, Benjamin Kaduk, and Murray Kucherawy to look at
       updating the I-D Checklist.

Murray: Still in progress. I got pinged by Alvaro and Michelle that there's
more feedback coming.

     o Eric Vyncke (with Suresh Krishnan) to write a draft of an IoT
       Systems charter.

Eric V: In progress.

     o Alvaro Retana and Martin Vigoureux to draft text on guidance
       regarding the number of document authors on documents.

Alvaro: This is ongoing, as well as the other two I have upcoming.

     o Alvaro Retana, Rob Wilton, Alissa Cooper, and Martin Vigoureux to
       draft text on the framework for a long-term future plan for the

In progress.

     o Roman Danyliw to draft text for a request to the Tools Team to move
       BoF requests from the BoF Wiki to the Datatracker.

Roman: I hope to talk to the tools team about this next week.

     o Barry Leiba to draft a proposal regarding moving the deadline for
       BoF Proposals for IETF 109 earlier (more than two weeks before the
       BoF Coordination Call).

Barry: In progress.

     o Alvaro Retana, Warren Kumari, and Barry Leiba to draft clarifying
       text on Errata Best Practices.

In progress.

     o Ben Kaduk to find designated experts for RFC-hodges-webauthn-
       registries [IANA #1172453].

Amy: This is on today's agenda as a management item so this is provisionally

2. Protocol actions
2.1 WG submissions
2.1.1 New items

 o draft-ietf-secevent-http-push-12  - IETF stream
   Push-Based Security Event Token (SET) Delivery Using HTTP (Proposed
   Token: Benjamin Kaduk

Amy: There are no Discusses for this document so unless there's an objection
now, it looks like this document is approved.

Ben: We got updated drafts last night for both this one and the other document
from secevent that appear to address all of the comments, although I didn't
specifically check. If we put this into Approved, Announcement to be Sent, the
announcement doesn't actually get sent until Monday, right? Let's do that and
I'll look at the changes today and holler if it's incorrect.

Amy: Great; this will go on Monday unless we hear from you.

 o draft-ietf-dots-signal-filter-control-06  - IETF stream
   Controlling Filtering Rules Using Distributed Denial-of-Service
   Open Threat Signaling (DOTS) Signal Channel (Proposed Standard)
   Token: Benjamin Kaduk

Amy: There are no Discusses for this document. Unless there's an objection now,
this one is approved.

Ben: Let's leave this one in [AD Followup]. There are some comments we need to
check up on.

Amy: Okay, this will go into Approved, Announcement to be Sent, AD Followup.

 o draft-ietf-secevent-http-poll-11  - IETF stream
   Poll-Based Security Event Token (SET) Delivery Using HTTP (Proposed
   Token: Benjamin Kaduk

Amy: There are no Discusses in the tracker so unless there's an objection it
looks like this one is also approved.

Ben: This one should be Approved, Announcement to be Sent.

 o draft-ietf-detnet-ip-06  - IETF stream
   DetNet Data Plane: IP (Proposed Standard)
   Token: Deborah Brungard

Amy: I have a couple of Discusses in the tracker; do we need to discuss any of
those today?

Deborah: I don't think so, unless somebody wants to.

Roman: I just let the authors know I've cleared my Discuss based on their
proposed edits.

Deborah: Great. I'm sure they'll respond to everybody.

Warren: I was actually going to ballot Discuss but I didn't have time to fully
write out my thoughts and there were other discusses. I found this document
very, very unclear.

Deborah: I saw that. If you have time to read it, let them know. I'm sure
they'll be very interested in your comments. I'm sure they'll be happy to have
dialogue with you.

Eric V: In the same vein, I really would love to get a reply and an answer on
my comments.

Deborah: Okay, I'll make sure. Thank you everybody for reading it. Keep it in
evaluation and we'll get it cleaned up.

Amy: Does it go into Revised ID Needed?

Deborah: Yes.

2.1.2 Returning items


2.2 Individual submissions
2.2.1 New items

 o draft-gellens-lost-validation-08  - IETF stream
   The LoST-Validation S-NAPTR Application Service Tag (Proposed
   Token: Barry Leiba

Amy: There are no Discusses in the tracker so unless there's an objection it
looks like this one is approved.

Barry: Please put this in AD Followup. Thanks.

2.2.2 Returning items


2.3 Status changes
2.3.1 New items


2.3.2 Returning items


3. Document actions
3.1 WG submissions
3.1.1 New items


3.1.2 Returning items


3.2 Individual submissions via AD
3.2.1 New items


3.2.2 Returning items


3.3 Status changes
3.3.1 New items


3.3.2 Returning items


3.4 IRTF and Independent Submission stream documents
3.4.1 New items

 o conflict-review-boucadair-connectivity-provisioning-protocol-00
   IETF conflict review for
     Dynamic Service Negotiation (ISE: Informational)
   Token: Erik Kline

Amy: I have no Discusses in the tracker, so unless there's an objection now the
no-problem message can go back to the ISE with the writeup that's currently in
the tracker. Hearing no objection, so this is done.

3.4.2 Returning items


4. Working Group actions
4.1 WG creation
4.1.1 Proposed for IETF review

 o Grant Negotiation and Authorization Protocol (gnap)

Amy: I have no blocking comments for this charter, so this is ready to send for
external review unless there's an objection now.

Roman: I just wanted to double check with the group. I believe I have fielded
many of the comments but not all of them; there's an editorial thing and an
issue still with Ben holding good feedback. We just want to keep this charter
moving, so we'll get to these comments, and don't worry, we're not dropping the
two or three comments still on the mailing list.

Amy: So it sounds like this charter is ready for external review. Do you want
to hold it pending edits?

Roman: No, given the time constraints. We'd ideally like to get this done
before 108. I'd like to keep it moving; we'll just get those remaining to-dos
editorially as we're working the external community feedback.

Amy: Great; the external review message will go tomorrow as usual.

 o Privacy Pass (privacypass)

Amy: I have no blocking comments in the tracker, so unless there's an objection
it looks like this is cleared for external review.

Ben: Let's send it to external review and get it right back on for the next

Amy: We'll do that tomorrow as we normally do.

 o Stay Home Meet Only Online (shmoo)

Amy: I have no blocking comments in the tracker, so unless there's an objection
it looks like this is cleared for external review.

Magnus: Question here. The comment about the nomcom and other procedural
effects, what's the plan there?

Alissa: Stephen Farrell and Brian Carpenter have a draft they've been working
on, and I've been pinging them regularly because there was some additional data
analysis Stephen was going to do to better inform the discussion about that,
because it looks at what the eligibility pool would look like under the new
criteria they propose. I just had another back and forth with them again trying
to get them to update the draft before 108 and my hope is that it can be
discussed in gendispatch. I think it can be done as AD Sponsored, it's just one
draft. That's why there's a split here, because this group has a lot of other
stuff. There's some relationship with the meeting cadence in the eligibility
discussion, but some of the eligibility discussion is not about meeting cadence
at all. I think it's a little cleaner to keep them separate and that one is
already moving.

Ben: It would definitely be good to keep that moving.

Amy: So it still sounds like this is ready for external review.

Alissa: Yep. I just fixed the SHMO/SHMOO problems Barry pointed out and I think
all other problems have been addressed in the text.

Amy: Great; we'll send the announcement and it will come back next time.

4.1.2 Proposed for approval

 o Automatic SIP trunking And Peering (asap)

Amy: I have no blocking comments, so unless there's an objection, ASAP is

Murray: I note Ben's comment; I'll see if I can get that point clarified.
Besides that and finding chairs, I think this is good to go.

Amy: Yes, it's pending chairs and an email list.

Murray: I guess we can create the email list whenever you're ready. We are
working on the chairs part.

Amy: Your next step, besides finding chairs, is to request that email list get
set up.

4.2 WG rechartering
4.2.1 Under evaluation for IETF review


4.2.2 Proposed for approval


5. IAB news we can use

Alvaro: Mostly a heads up; the IAB, after the retreat, has been talking about
some programs. One that is going to be sent to the IESG for review or
information is called Evolvability, Deployability, & Maintainability (EDM)
Program. I think there's a lot of relationship with things we have talked about
in the past that may result in actions or changes to processes. We should
coordinate more. Tommy is the one driving it from the IAB; Tommy, do you want
to say anything else?

Tommy: This is one of the things we discussed at the retreat; how do we keep
momentum on some of these things we've talked about in the IAB before, like the
stack evolution program. We think that the documents in this area have been
written but it's more about applying them to the WG process to the IETF culture
as a whole. I'll send out the proposal and I definitely want to hear any and
all feedback from the IESG. A lot of it, doing these practical things of making
sure the tooling is available for different features, will need to be enacted
and coordinated with the IESG. If all of you are fine with it, having an IAB
program we can host and get community input on, would be good place to
brainstorm how to make things a bit more real and have a better way to make
more mainstream the things we see going on in groups like quic, where we see a
very healthy idea of who's doing experiments, how's the interop going, and
having that be very visible to a WG and making sure it's promoting the eventual
deployability and evolvability of a protocol.

Alvaro: Thanks Tommy. I think that's all.

6. Management issues

6.1 [IANA #1172453] Designated experts for RFC-hodges-webauthn-registries-10
Download (untitled) / with headers  text/plain 541B (IANA/Ben Kaduk)

Amy: Ben has identified Jeff Hodges, Mike Jones, and Giridhar Mandyam as
experts for this registry. Any objection? Hearing no objection, so they are
approved and we will get the official note sent to IANA.

6.2 [IANA #1172468] renewing early allocations for draft-ietf-idr-tunnel-encaps

Alvaro: This draft is already in my queue. I'm just waiting for revisions from
my review to come to the IESG. I definitely think we should approve the renewal.

Amy: Any objection to approving the renewal? Hearing no objection, so we will
send official note to IANA.

6.3 IESG Teleconference Dates between IETF 108 and IETF 109 (Secretariat)

Amy: We only found one good set of dates that would give seven formal telechats
between 108 and 109, which is our target number. Is there any objection to
approving this as the calendar? Hearing no objection, so these are approved and
we'll get these in the calendar and Datatracker.

6.5 [IANA #1172851] Management Item: Acceptance of media type registration from
standards organization WHATWG (IANA)

Barry: We've looked at this before and previously have approved individual
registrations from the WHATWG but not put them on the list. I think it really
is time that they go on the list; they've morphed a lot and improved their
process, and they really are a real standards developing organization right
now. I think they belong on the list at this point.

Warren: I don't object, but what does it actually mean once they're on the list?

Barry: It means that they can register media types in the standards tree
without coming back to the IESG. It will still go through expert review. No
other discussion or objections? Thanks.

Amy: So I'm hearing no objection and we will send official note to IANA.

6.6 Updates on IETF 108 planning (Alissa Cooper)

- Interims: The IESG discussed interim meetings around IETF 108. Interim
meetings will be restricted in the week before and the week during the IETF
meeting, but interim meetings can be scheduled the week after IETF 108.

- Side meetings: The side meetings wiki will be provided for people to put
their information into. The IETF will not provide conferencing support for
these meetings, and anyone who cannot use their own will be invited to email
the IESG.

- Blue sheets: Blue sheets will be automatically generated by Meetecho's
participant list.

7. Any Other Business (WG News, New Proposals, etc.)

6.4 Conflict Resolution for IETF 108 (Liz/Secretariat)

The IESG looked through the IETF 108 preliminary agenda and discussed conflict