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Narrative Minutes interim-2022-iesg-08 2022-04-07 14:00
narrative-minutes-interim-2022-iesg-08-202204071400-00

Meeting Narrative Minutes Internet Engineering Steering Group (iesg) IETF
Date and time 2022-04-07 14:00
Title Narrative Minutes interim-2022-iesg-08 2022-04-07 14:00
State (None)
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Last updated 2024-02-23

narrative-minutes-interim-2022-iesg-08-202204071400-00
INTERNET ENGINEERING STEERING GROUP (IESG)
Narrative minutes for the 2022-04-07 IESG Teleconference

These are not an official record of the meeting.
Narrative Scribe: Amy Vezza, Secretariat

1. Administrivia
1.1 Roll call

ATTENDEES
---------------------------------
Andrew Alston (Liquid Intelligent Technologies) / Routing Area
Jenny Bui (AMS) / IETF Secretariat
Martin Duke (Google) / Transport Area
Lars Eggert (NetApp) / IETF Chair, General Area
Sandy Ginoza (AMS) / RFC Editor Liaison
Erik Kline  / Internet Area
Murray Kucherawy (Facebook) / Applications and Real-Time Area
Mirja Kuehlewind (Ericsson) / IAB Chair
Warren Kumari (Google) / Operations and Management Area
Cindy Morgan (AMS) / IETF Secretariat
Francesca Palombini (Ericsson) / Applications and Real-Time Area
Alvaro Retana (Futurewei Technologies) / Routing Area
Zaheduzzaman (Zahed) Sarker (Ericsson) / Transport Area
John Scudder (Juniper) / Routing Area
Sabrina Tanamal (ICANN) / IANA Liaison
Amy Vezza (AMS) / IETF Secretariat
Eric Vyncke (Cisco) / Internet Area
Robert Wilton (Cisco Systems) / Operations and Management Area
Paul Wouters (Aiven) / Security Area
Qin Wu / IAB Liaison

REGRETS
---------------------------------
Jay Daley / IETF Executive Director
Roman Danyliw (CERT/SEI) / Security Area
Liz Flynn (AMS) / IETF Secretariat, Narrative Scribe

OBSERVERS
---------------------------------
Bob Hinden
Greg Wood


1.2 Bash the agenda

No items added.

1.3 Approval of the minutes of past telechats

Amy: Any objection to approving the minutes for both March 3 and March
10? [no objection] Minutes are approved and we will post. Narrative
minutes are available for March 3 and March 10, any objection to
approving the final narrative minutes for those two telechats? [no
objection] Those are approved, and we will post them. We also have the
BoF Coordination Call minutes to approve. We received no comments on
these. Any objection to approving this set of minutes? [no objection]
Great, we will post those to the archive as well. Thank you!

1.4 List of remaining action items from last telechat

    OUTSTANDING TASKS

         Last updated: March 10, 2022

    * DESIGNATED EXPERTS NEEDED

      o Roman Danyliw to find designated experts for RFC 9180 [IANA
        #1226140].
        - Added 2022-03-03 (2 telechat ago)

Amy: This is on as a MI to approve the experts Roman has identified,
so we will mark this provisionally approved pending the MI.

      o Martin Duke to find designated experts for RFC 6335 (Service
        Name and Transport Protocol Port Number Registry) [IANA
        #1228043]
        - Added 2022-03-16 (0 telechats ago)

Amy: Added in the last week as a new AI for Martin.

     o Murray Kucherawy to find designated experts for RFC 9208, "IMAP
       QUOTA Extension" [IANA #1229081].
       - Added 2022-04-04 (0 telechats ago)

Amy: Added in the last week as a new AI for Murray.

    * OPEN ACTION ITEMS

   o Alvaro Retana and Martin Vigoureux to draft a note to wgchairs
        asking them to always confirm author/contributor status.
        - Added 2021-04-01 (22 telechats ago)

Amy: I saw draft text on this, so I think the drafting part it done.

Alvaro: I got some comments. I think we're done. But it is based on
the shepherd writeup, so we're waiting for that to be published. This
is waiting for the new shepherd write up to be available on the Web
site and in the datatracker.

Lars: I think part of it is done. I think ƒric opened a ticket for
this.

ƒric: I will follow up with the tools team.

Lars: And Greg for the Web site?

Alvaro: Waiting for that to be posted in both places.

Amy: We'll follow up on that.

   o Robert Wilton, Alvaro Retana, and Warren Kumari to report back to
        the IESG on the impact of COVID-19 to the IETF in July 2022.
        - On hold; added 2021-06-10 (17 telechats ago)

Amy: On hold until late June/early July.

Lars: Question here. Wondering how many people reported COVID? I heard
eight?

Amy: Last number I heard was seven.

Warren: Did we include the NOC person?

Lars: Yes. I will wait for Jay to be back to confirm. Our COVID
officer expected between one and five per day, and we were
significantly under that.

Cindy: We have not had more tickets reporting COVID.

Lars: Encouraging.

Mirja: May be that people did not report.

Lars: They were supposed to.

Warren: I may not have remembered to report after I returned home.

   o Murray Kucherawy to look into updating the guidance in BCP 13 on
        when to add organizations to the "Standards-related
        organizations that have registered Media Types in the
        Standards Tree" list.
        - Added 2021-12-16 (6 telechats ago)

Murray: This is still in progress.

   o Francesca Palombini to follow up on the public archive of AUTH48
        conversations.
        - Added 2022-03-03 (2 telechat ago)

Amy: Comment period ended here.

Francesca: I have not had time to incorporate all the comments. Add a
MI next time?

Amy: Put on the agenda for the next formal call?

Francesca: Yes.


2. Protocol actions
2.1 WG submissions
2.1.1 New items

  o draft-ietf-teas-gmpls-signaling-smp-11  - IETF stream
    GMPLS Signaling Extensions for Shared Mesh Protection (Proposed
    Standard)
    Token: John Scudder
    IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed
    Consensus: Yes
    Reviews: SECDIR Last Call Review (of -10): Ready
             OPSDIR Last Call Review (of -10): Not Ready
             GENART Last Call Review (of -10): Ready with Nits
             RTGDIR Last Call Review (of -07): Has Nits

Amy: Has a discuss.

John: Thanks for the catch, I think it is good. I've talked with the
shepherd and it will be an update to the document.

Amy: So substate of revised ID needed.

  o draft-ietf-bfd-rfc9127-bis-02  - IETF stream
    YANG Data Model for Bidirectional Forwarding Detection (BFD)
    (Proposed Standard)
    Token: John Scudder
    IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed
    Consensus: Yes
    Reviews: RTGDIR Last Call Review: Ready
             YANGDOCTORS Last Call Review (of -01): Ready with Issues
             GENART Last Call Review (of -01): Ready
             SECDIR Last Call Review - due: 2022-02-03

Amy: Has a discuss.

John: Briefly. The authors are up to version -04, so I think it
addresses them all.

Francesca: The discuss is cleared with the revision. The first comment
there is still one in the appendix. The third comment I was hoping for
more text in the draft, I won't block on this. They are explaining
this is a choice one or the other. What happens if this is done wrong
and get both?

John: I am a YANG idiot, I think if you use a choice the API doesn't
let you get it wrong. Rob?

Rob: Yes, if it is a choice statement you can only get one or the
other.

Francesca: I will clear. You can follow up for one more update if
needed.

Amy so approved announcement to be sent with revised ID needed.


2.1.2 Returning items

  o draft-ietf-tls-external-psk-importer-07  - IETF stream
    Importing External PSKs for TLS (Proposed Standard)
    Token: Roman Danyliw
    IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed
    Consensus: Yes
    Reviews: OPSDIR Last Call Review (of -05): Has Nits
             GENART Last Call Review (of -05): Ready with Issues
             ARTART Telechat Review - due: 2022-04-05
             SECDIR Last Call Review - due: 2020-10-15

Amy: Looks like this one is approved.

Lars: I got an email they would do a revision.

Amy: So approved announcement to be sent and substate of revised ID
needed.

  o draft-ietf-httpapi-linkset-09  - IETF stream
    Linkset: Media Types and a Link Relation Type for Link Sets
    (Proposed Standard)
    Token: Francesca Palombini
    IANA Review: Version Changed - Review Needed
    Consensus: Yes
    Reviews: GENART Last Call Review (of -06): Ready with Issues
             SECDIR Last Call Review (of -06): Has Nits
             I18NDIR Last Call Review - due: 2022-03-21
             OPSDIR Last Call Review - due: 2022-01-19

Amy: No discusses. Looks like it is approved.

Francesca: One update coming, and waiting on internationalization
review promised.

Amy: Will go into approved, AD follow up.

2.2 Individual submissions
2.2.1 New items

  NONE

2.2.2 Returning items

  o draft-carpenter-rfced-iab-charter
    IAB Charter Update for RFC Editor Model
    Token: Lars Eggert
    Reviews: ARTART Last Call Review (of -08): Ready
             I18NDIR Last Call Review (of -05): Ready with Nits
             GENART Last Call Review (of -05): Ready with Nits
             SECDIR Last Call Review (of -05): Ready
             INTDIR Last Call Review (of -05): Ready
             IOTDIR Last Call Review (of -05): Ready with Nits
             TSVART Last Call Review (of -05): Ready
             RTGDIR Last Call Review - due: 2022-03-07
             OPSDIR Last Call Review - due: 2022-03-07

Amy: This is a returning item.

Lars: I changed the area to "none." This is already approved, but it
went through another Last Call. It removed a requirement for the IAB.
I put it back to make sure this going forward with the other three
documents to progress all four together. I'll send that note out.

Amy: This is in substate AD Follow up.

Lars: I will send a ticket to clear it.

2.3 Status changes
2.3.1 New items

  NONE

2.3.2 Returning items

  NONE

3. Document actions
3.1 WG submissions
3.1.1 New items

  o draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-28  - IETF stream
    IPv6 Wireless Access in Vehicular Environments (IPWAVE): Problem
    Statement and Use Cases (Informational)
    Token: Erik Kline
    IANA Review: Version Changed - Review Needed
    Consensus: Yes
    Reviews: SECDIR Telechat Review (of -27): Has Issues
             INTDIR Telechat Review (of -27): Ready with Issues
             ARTART Telechat Review (of -27): Almost Ready
             INTDIR Last Call Review (of -20): Not Ready
             SECDIR Telechat Review - due: 2022-04-05

Amy: I have a couple of discusses.

Erik: The author has not had a chance to reply to the feedback, but if
someone needs to discuss. Thank you everyone for the careful reviews.
I think there ought to be a way to make a reasonable problem
statement.

Warren: This is the last document for IPWAVE. I don't know how
important it is for additional work. Information with background.

Erik: Fair assessment. I think the document process had several people
attach their favorite technology to it.

Warren: Not the most impactful. So we might as well. I would like to
see IPWAVE shut down because it frees up people for other things.

Erik: I can shut down the WG now.

Lars: Given that IPWAVE seems dormant, we can task the chairs
elsewhere.

Erik: I can reach out to the author.

Amy: Sounds like this will require a revised ID.


  o draft-ietf-detnet-bounded-latency-09  - IETF stream
    DetNet Bounded Latency (Informational)
    Token: John Scudder
    IANA Review: IANA OK - No Actions Needed
    Consensus: Unknown
    Reviews: TSVART Last Call Review (of -08): Ready with Nits
             ARTART Last Call Review (of -08): Ready with Issues
             SECDIR Last Call Review (of -08): Has Issues
             GENART Last Call Review (of -08): Ready
             INTDIR Last Call Review (of -08): Ready with Nits
             RTGDIR Last Call Review (of -06): Has Nits
             SECDIR Telechat Review - due: 2022-04-05
             OPSDIR Last Call Review - due: 2022-02-08

Amy: I will change the consensus to YES from UNKNOWN. No discusses.
Looks like it approved.

Francesca: I wanted to talk about the track. Not clear why the
document is informational. I was wondering if there had been more
discussion on that. Will it be referenced by standards track RFCs?

John: I can go check on that, but as far as I know it was sort of not
debated in the group. I don't think it will be expected to be
referenced by standards track stuff.

Francesca: I wanted to make sure it was discussed, because it was not
clear. The authors added some stuff on the purpose based on Robert's
ART review. Thank you for checking it.

Amy: Sounds like approved, announcement to be sent substate revised
ID.

  o draft-ietf-lwig-minimal-esp-08  - IETF stream
    Minimal IP Encapsulating Security Payload (ESP) (Informational)
    Token: Erik Kline
    IANA Review: IANA OK - No Actions Needed
    Consensus: Yes
    Reviews: TSVART Last Call Review (of -06): On the Right Track
             SECDIR Last Call Review (of -06): Ready
             GENART Last Call Review (of -04): Ready with Issues
             SECDIR Last Call Review (of -03): Has Nits
             IOTDIR Last Call Review (of -03): Ready with Issues
             OPSDIR Last Call Review - due: 2021-08-26

Amy: This document has discusses.

Erik: Thank you for the reviews. Daniel has been prompt in replying.

Paul: I will contact him and discuss more, I will pick it up with him.
I am fairly confident this will need a revision.

Amy: Substate revised ID needed.

  o draft-ietf-6man-mtu-option-13  - IETF stream
    IPv6 Minimum Path MTU Hop-by-Hop Option (Experimental)
    Token: Erik Kline
    IANA Review: IANA OK - Actions Needed
    Reviews: ARTART Last Call Review: Ready with Issues
             TSVART Last Call Review (of -12): Not Ready
             SECDIR Last Call Review (of -12): Has Nits
             GENART Last Call Review (of -12): Ready
             OPSDIR Last Call Review (of -12): Ready
             TSVART Telechat Review - due: 2022-04-05
             INTDIR Telechat Review - due: 2022-04-03
             OPSDIR Telechat Review - due: 2022-04-05

Amy: Do we need to discuss the discusses?

Erik: We can.

Alvaro: I suggested taking the shoulds out. He seemed to agree. I
think he will take the normative words.

Erik: No normative text in 6.1 and 6.2?

Alvaro: The first two paragraphs in 6.1.

Murray: I hold a discuss and will disappear. I will clear if I see a
revision, or hand it off to someone else to track when I go offline
for the last half of April. I think they should look at the shoulds in
6.2 as well.

Erik: I will look at the host behavior document and check for musts.

Bob Hinden: There has been a lot of comments relating to this and
several changes were proposed. I think we have text for both of these
in email. We'll update the draft for that.

Zahed: I have some of the same comments as well. So it would be good
if I can get a link to the discussion on this.

Bob H.: Gorry's email this morning about changing both of those
paragraphs. Definitely needs a new draft.

Amy: Substate revised ID needed for that work.


3.1.2 Returning items

  NONE

3.2 Individual submissions via AD
3.2.1 New items

  NONE

3.2.2 Returning items

  NONE

3.3 Status changes
3.3.1 New items

  NONE

3.3.2 Returning items

  NONE

3.4 IRTF and Independent Submission stream documents
3.4.1 New items

  NONE

3.4.2 Returning items

  NONE

4. Working Group actions
4.1 WG creation
4.1.1 Proposed for IETF review

  NONE

4.1.2 Proposed for approval

  NONE

4.2 WG rechartering
4.2.1 Under evaluation for IETF review

  NONE

4.2.2 Proposed for approval

  NONE

5. IAB news we can use

Mirja: We have a call open for RSWG chairs we need to get some more
candidates.

Lars: We need to start twisting some arms for the RSWG chairs for the
common good.

6. Management issues

6.1 [IANA #1227326] renewing early allocations for draft-ietf-ippm-
ioam-ipv6-options (IANA)

Martin: Yeah, this pretty close to shipping, so we need a more time.

[no objection]

Amy: Looks like early allocation is approved.

6.2 [IANA #1227526] renewing early allocation for RFC 8111 (Locator/ID
Separation Protocol Delegated Database Tree (LISP-DDT)) (IANA)

Alvaro: This is shipped. Originally charter to produce only
experimental document. But now LISP is chartered for standards track
document and is on the list to look at and update. So we should renew
this.

[no objection]

Amy: Approved.

6.3 [IANA #1228043] Designated expert for RFC 6335 (Service Name and
Transport Protocol Port Number Registry) (IANA)

Amy: New action item for Martin.

Martin D: There are all the ports team which is a cast of thousands.
And this is just to add this person [Michael Scharf] to the pile.

6.4 Designated Experts for draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy
(Andrew Alston)

Amy: This is clean up from Martin V. He didn't get quite through the
process to approve these two people.

Andrew: Anything for me to do here?

Amy: Nope. Anyone else have any objection to the two folks Martin V.
identified for the registry for this document?

[no objection]

Amy: They are approved.

6.5 [IANA #1229081] Designated experts for RFC 9208, "IMAP QUOTA
Extension" (IANA)

Amy: New AI for Murray as the AD for the EXTRA WG.

Murray: I have pinged the group for volunteers. I hope to have them,
or will hand this off to Francesca if I'm out.

6.6 [IANA #1229134] Acceptance of media type registration from
standards organization CWL Project (IANA)

Amy: Can anyone speak to this?

Murray: I can review this as an Action Item.

6.7 IAB's Response to FCC Request for Comments on Secure Internet
Routing (Lars and Mirja)

Lars: I sent email to the group for the link to the document. I did
wordsmith a little, but Mirja can ignore it. This is not something we
have to approve, but it would be good if we were not surprised by it.

Warren: I don't think there is anything surprising, so if you have not
read it. You should read it, it's short.

Mirja: There is a deadline next Monday, but I am planning to submit
this tomorrow.

Amy: Any concerns?

Lars: Get your comments in and Mirja will ship it.

6.8 Designated experts for RFC 9180 (Hybrid Public Key Encryption)
(hpke) (Roman Danyliw)

Amy: Roman identified two people for this registry. Any objection?

[no objection]

Amy: Okay, they are approved.

7. Any Other Business (WG News, New Proposals, etc.)

Amy: Anything else to discuss?

Alvaro: For the shepherd write up, Greg pointed to the web site, so we
are waiting for the datatracker. Will we send something out to the
chairs about it?

Lars: I think we did? We should send something out.

Alvaro: I'll wait for that before sending the other note. Thanks.

Francesca: I have received a request for mailing list. I plan to go
ahead and make the mailing list. I want to check there are no concerns
with that?

Erik: The LWIG Curve document. Did Ben and Roman do some handover for
that?

Paul: Does Ben have an open discuss here?

Erik: Yes. I will follow up with you and Roman. I think there is
confirmation from a COSE expert they're okay with it. Something has to
happen here.

Murray: Maybe expose it to SECDISPATCH to see what they say.

Erik: Not sure if this ever got SECDISPATCHed properly.

Murray: We should find some path. It came the wrong way, but it is
useful. Are we going to hold process over content?

Warren: Feels weird.

Lars: I don't want to set a president that a WG can go beyond their
charter by a lot. I think it can be put forward by an AD.

Murray: It was a colossus process problem. I think we should do
something to get it moving.

Erik: Thank you.

Lars: Mirja brought it up already. We need to twist arms for the RSWG
chair pool. I sent some emails earlier today. Our nominee pool is very
shallow. If you want me to send some emails, give me names and I will.
We're also collecting items for the retreat. If you have anything
please add it now, and Mirja and I will try to dispatch it into IESG
only, IAB only, or Joint.

Andrew: There is something the RTG ADs are working on, but we haven't
yet defined the topic.

Lars: Great - even if it is not defined, add a placeholder so we know
we need to budget time for it.

Mirja: Social interactions. I believe we will have a joint dinner
Wednesday night.

Lars: There is a Google doc where you should add yourself so the
Google people can give a list to their security folks. Also we're
close to getting a NomCom chair. So if you are not running as an
incumbent, you should think about who you would nominate to follow
you.

Alvaro: You should think about other people to nominate even if you
want run again.

Warren: I have already started to try to convince people to run
against me. Finding people who have the time and employer support is
tricky.

Zahed: I have been trying to convince folks to nominate themselves.

Lars: Great.

Amy: Reminder the IESG Conflict of Interest disclosures need to be
sent back by next Friday. Thank you. We'll talk next time.