2012-09-05: Minutes of the IETF/IEEE 802 Coordination Meeting
slides-interim-2021-ietfieee-01-sessa-2012-09-05-minutes-of-the-ietfieee-802-coordination-meeting-00

IAB, IESG and IEEE 802 Executive Committee
Minutes of the 5 September 2012 Virtual Meeting

Reported by: Amy Vezza

ATTENDEES
-------------------
Bernard Aboba, IAB Chair
Ross Callon, IAB
Benoit Claise, IESG
Spencer Dawkins, IAB
Ralph Droms, IESG
Adrian Farrel, IESG
Howard Frazier, 802.3 MIB Task Group Chair
Eric Gray, IETF Liaison Manager to IEEE 802.1
Bruce Kraemer,
Roger Marks, 802.16 Chair
Paul Nikolich, 802 Chair
Glenn Parsons, 802.1 vice chair, RAC chair, IEEE-SA BOG
Dan Romascanu, IETF/IEEE-SA Liaison
Jon Rosdahl, 802 Executive Secretary, 802.11 Vice Chair
Dorothy Stanley, 802.11 Liaison to IETF
Pat Thaler, 802 Vice-Chair
Sean Turner, IESG
Amy Vezza, IETF Secretariat

MINUTES
-------------------

1. Roll Call, Agenda Bashing, Minutes Approval

Dan Romascanu called out the attendees and requested permission for the
teleconference to be recorded.  Permission was granted.

Dan started the meeting with a brief discussion on email lists and noted
there was an agreement to create an email list to discuss the editing of
the proposed 4441bis document, but that there should be a second email
list to discuss IETF/IEEE mutual interest topics.

A short discussion regarding the topic introduced the idea that there
should be two lists at minimum, and possibly more as needs dictate.

Spencer Dawkins took an action item to create as second mailing list for
general discussion [possibly to be named something like ieee-ietf-
topics].

It was stated that the draft minutes from the leadership meeting on July
25, 2012 could not be approved yet as the participants have not all
reviewed them and approved them.

2. RFC 4441bis outline, schedules, mode of work

Spencer Dawkins presented an overview of the proposed 4441bis document
work.

Slides: RRFC 441bis Status Report

Spencer indicated that he, Pat Thaler, and Dan Romascanu discussed the
way RFC 4441 is no longer as useful a template for the way the IETF and
the IEEE 802 provide feedback to each other?s projects. The 4441bis
document will provide a new way forward to this goal.

Spencer indicated this will be a joint effort of a small team of authors
and editors, and has already involved Subir Das and Roger Marks, and
expects to include Eric Gray and Dorothy Stanley.

Spencer indicated the goal was to be finished with the 4441bis document
by the co-located plenary meetings in March 2013.

A discussion on the intent for the 4441bis document; whether it will
update, obsolete, or make RFC 4441 historic. The intent is clarified to
have the 4441bis document update or obsolete RFC 4441 - but to let the
author/editor team make the determination to what extent the bis
document will update RFC 4441.

Spencer reported that the 4441bis team plans to publish the bis document
as part of the RFC IAB stream [procedure for IAB stream documents is
detailed in section 3 of RFC 4845].  During the Call for Comments, the
IAB will solicit feedback from the IEEE.  The IAB may request the IEEE
802 Executive Committee provide a note to be included in the published
RFC to reflect that the document is a dialogue between the IETF and the
IEEE 802.

Dan Romascanu clarified that the 4441bis document would likely have two
of the editors listed as the main authors, one editor from the IETF and
one editor from the IEEE 802 so that would also indicate this document
is a shared project.

A discussion on the timeframe for the document included a request for a
first draft of the document be ready before the IETF 85 meeting,
November 2012.  Dan proposed the draft version -00 of the document be
ready before the October IETF document cut off, in order to be discussed
at the next IETF/IEEE joint teleconference (October 2012) and revise (to
version -01) before the November 17, 2012 IEEE 802 joint meeting.

This was agreed to be a feasible timeframe for the 4441bis document.

3. Areas of shared interest between the IETF and IEEE 802.  Review of
the list of items, sorting and prioritization

Dan Romascanu presented a document:

Potential Areas for IETF/IEEE802 Coordination

Dan introduced the document.  Each header is a potential area for
coordination, and each item has four subsections; 1 the Description of
the item, 2 the Relevant Documents for the item, 3 the Owners of the
item, and 4 the Action Items for the item.

Roger Marks requested clarification of the set up of the list.  He asked
if these items are specific coordination problems to solve, or areas of
ongoing issues that need remain coordinated.  After a short discussion
it is decided that they could be both types of issues, and if ongoing
coordination is called for it can be described in subsection for Action
Items.

Items one through four and sixteen to eighteen were skipped as there
were no delegates from IEEE 802.1 on the call at the time of the
discussion.

Item five: Effect of virtualization on IEEE 802 architecture

Glenn Parsons reported that the action item from the last meeting on
updating the IETF on virtualization at the Vancouver IETF Meeting (July/
August, 2012) was completed.  Glenn indicated he will take ownership of
the item.  A new action item was identified: Ross Callon and Spencer
Dawkins to discuss the relation and effects of virtualization on the IEEE 
802 architecture with the IAB.

Item six: IETF EMU and IEEE 802.1X, 802.11 and 802.16 security based on
EAPS

Sean Turner indicated no action required.  After a short discussion it
was proposed that this item would be removed from the list.

Item seven: IETF Ethernet MIB, ADSL MIB and IEEE 802.3

Benoit Claise updated subsection four; the third Action Item has been
changed to Ed Beili, Dan Romascanu, and Howard Frazier will write an I-D
targeting informational RFC, similar to RFC 4663

Item eight: IETF 6LOWPAN and IEEE 802.15

Ralph Droms reported the new 802.15 Study Group should be aware of the
work already taken place in the IETF 6LOWPAN Working Group.  Ralph
indicated he would take ownership of this item and ask Clint Powell to
share the responsibility.  He also indicated this would likely be an
ongoing coordination effort.

Item nine: IETF PAWS WG and IEEE 802.1, 802.11, 802.15, 802.16, and
802.22S

Bruce Kraemer volunteered that one of the IETF PAWS WG Chairs (Gabor
Bajko) is active in 802.11.  Dan Romascanu took an action item to
clarify with Gabor Bajko and Pete Resnick if there are any action items
that need to be taken immediately regarding coordination.

Item ten: IETF IPPM and IEEE 802.16 Metrology Study Group

Roger Marks volunteered to be the owner of this item, and identified an
action item: IEEE 802.16 to send a statement to IETF IPPM WG informing
them of the status of the activities of 802.16, and possibly asking for
input.

Item eleven: IETF Mobile IP and IEEE 802.16 HetNet Study Group

Roger Marks indicated he would be the owner of this item.  An action
item was identified: Roger Marks to form a team to discuss coordination
with possible input from Brian Haberman and Charlie Perkins.

Item twelve: IETF HOKEY and IEEE 802.21

Dan Romascanu confirms that the IETF HOKEY WG was concluded since the
Leadership meeting in July 2012.  An action item was identified: Dan
Romascanu to ask Subir Das to clarify whether IEEE 802.21 has any
impending actions that might require the input from the concluded IETF
HOKEY WG. The former chairs of HOKEY are still active IETF participants
and would be able to help if needed.

Item thirteen: IETF MIF and IEEE 802.21

Dan Romascanu took an action item: Dan Romascanu to ask Subir Das to
clarify what is required.

Item fourteen: IETF IPFIX Information Elements for Data Link Monitoring

Dan has requested Benoit Claise provide an item description.  Benoit
claimed ownership for the issue and takes a subsection four action item:
Benoit Claise to send a liaison letter to the IEEE regarding the IETF
IPFIX Information Elements document [draft-ietf-ipfix-data-link-layer-
monitoring].

Item fifteen: IETF RADIUS attributes for IEEE 802 networks

Bernard Aboba reports that the document was sent to 802.1 and 802.11, no
comments were received, however the document is going to be revised
before IETF 85, November 2012.  Dan Romascanu identified a subsection
four action item for the IETF RADEXT WG Chairs to send a reminder to
IEEE 802.1 and IEEE 802.11 chairs requesting feedback on the document
(cc: Eric Gray) and follow up.


4. Additional (or continuing) action items:
  - Items 1-4 and 16-18 were not discussed in the meeting and may 
require assignment of "owners."
  - Ross Callon and Spencer Dawkins to discuss the relation and effects 
of virtualization on the IEEE 802 architecture with the IAB (item 5).
  - Ed Beili, Dan Romascanu, and Howard Frazier will write an I-D 
targeting informational RFC, similar  to RFC 4663 (to address item 7 
"IETF Ethernet MIB, ADSL MIB and IEEE 802.3 MIBs").
  - Ralph Droms will take ownership of action item 8 (from above) as a 
continuing coordination effort.
  - Dan Romascanu took an action item to clarify with Gabor Bajko and 
Pete Resnick if there are any action items that need to be taken 
immediately regarding coordination (item 9).
  - Roger Marks will get IEEE 802.16 to send a statement to IETF IPPM WG 
informing them of the status of the activities of 802.16, and possibly 
asking for input (item 10).

  - Roger Marks to form a team to discuss coordination with possible 
input from Brian Haberman and Charlie Perkins (item 11).
  - Dan Romascanu will ask Subir Das to clarify the following:
     -  whether IEEE 802.21 has any impending actions that require the 
input from the concluded IETF HOKEY WG (item 12);
     - what is required for item 13: IETF MIF and IEEE 802.21.
  - Benoit will send a liaison letter to the IEEE regarding the IETF 
IPFIX Information Elements document [draft-ietf-ipfix-data-link-layer-
monitoring] (item 14).
  - Dan Romascanu will notify IETF RADEXT WG Chairs that they need to 
send a reminder to IEEE 802.1 and IEEE 802.11 chairs requesting feedback 
on the document (cc: Eric Gray) and follow up (item 15).

5. Review of Other Action Items, Next Meeting date

Action items from the previous meeting (not reviewed):

  - Spencer Dawkins, Eric Gray, Dan Romascanu, Dorothy Stanley and Pat
Thaler agreed to work on an update to RFC 4441.

  - The IEEE 802 agreed to review and update the people they currently
have subscribed to the new-work mailing list, and to send PARs to new-
work.

  - The IEEE 802 agreed to add a page to their website listing their
current liaison relationships.

  - The IEEE 802 will look at removing mailing list restrictions that
prevent IETF participants from contributing to IEEE 802 work.

  - The IESG agreed to draft an IESG Statement regarding Ethertype
Requests.

  - The IAB and IESG will suggest a process for providing feedback to
the IEEE RAC on Virtualization and OUI Tiers.

New Action Items:

 - Spencer Dawkins to create a new mail list for IEEE and IETF general
coordination discussion.

- Dan Romascanu to initiate a Doodle poll for the date of the next
telechat. Done, the next telechat will take place on Monday October 29,
between 2PM and 4PM EDT.