2020-06-15: Minutes
slides-interim-2021-ietfieee-09-sessa-2020-06-15-minutes-00

Minutes of the  2020-06-15 IETF-IEEE 802 Coordination Teleconference

1. Welcome, roll call, agenda bashing

Present:

- Alissa Cooper
- Alvaro Retana
- Antonia de la Oliva
- Bob Grow
- Bob Heile
- Cindy Morgan
- Cullen Jennings
- Donald Eastlake
- Dorothy Stanley
- Eric Gray
- Eric Vyncke
- Erik Kline
- Glenn Parsons
- Jeff Tantsura
- Jodi Haasz
- Magnus Westerlund
- Martin Duke
- Murray Kucherawy
- Pascal Thubert
- Paul Congdon
- Paul Nikolich
- Peter Yee
- Robert Wilton
- Roger Marks
- Russ Housley
- Scott Mansfield
- Spencer Dawkins
- Tommy Pauly
- Warren Kumari


2. Action item updates

  - Done/OBE:

    o Paul Nikolich to ping Bob Heile to send a short description of 
      802's LPA project to Russ Housley for inclusion in the 
      coordination list.
      <http://www.ieee802.org/15/pub/TG4w.html>
      (Added 2019-10-16)

    o Paul Nikolich to ping Bob Heile for a status update on 802.15.12.
      (Added 2019-10-16)

    o Dorothy Stanley to find out when 802E will go to sponsor ballot.
      (Added 2019-10-16)

  - In Progress:

    o Bob Heile to send a short description of 802's LPA project with 
      pointers to Russ Housley for inclusion in the coordination list.
      <http://www.ieee802.org/15/pub/TG4w.html>
      (Added 2018-06-28)

    o Dorothy Stanley to ask Bob Heile for a status update on 
      802.15.12.
      (Added 2019-06-18)

  - New: 

    o Scott Mansfield and Rob Wilton to get IEEE and IETF people 
      together to brainstorm a way forward that will allow exact 
      match string comparison for MAC addresses.
      (Added 2020-06-15)

    o Bob Heile to email the coordination list once 802.15.4w is 
      published. Once it is published, item 31 on the coordination list
      can be closed.

    o Glenn Parson to send the details of the rejected 802.1Qcz port 
      requests to Magnus Westerlund.


3. IETF New Work summary

  - Applications and Real-Time

    o Automatic SIP trunking And Peering WG (ASAP)

      This is a placeholder for a WG that is the process of being 
      chartered. See https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/asap/about/

    o A Semantic Definition Format for Data and Interactions of Things 
      (ASDF) 

      This WG-forming BOF will work with OneDM and its contributing 
      organizations and develop SDF to an IETF-quality specification. 
      This may be of interest to IEEE 802 groups working on IoT.

    o Revision of core Email specifications (EMAILCORE)

      This WG-forming BOF will work to progress RFC 5321 (Simple Mail 
      Transfer Protocol) and RFC 5322 (Internet Message Format) to 
      Internet Standard.

  - General

    o Stay Home Meet Online (SHMO) 

      This is a placeholder for a WG that is the process of being 
      chartered. See https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/shmo/about/

  - Security

    o Grant Negotiation and Authorization Protocol (GNAP)

      This is a placeholder for a WG that is the process of being 
      chartered. See https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/gnap/about/

    o Privacy Pass (PRIVACYPASS)

      This is a placeholder for a WG that is the process of being 
      chartered. See https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/privacypass/about/

  - Transport

    o Local Optimizations on Path Segments (LOOPS)

      This WG-forming BOF will work on how best to locally optimize 
      encrypted traffic.


4. 802 New Work summary

  - 802.1

    802.1 is considering a 802.1ASdn (Time-Sensitive Networking) to add 
    a YANG module.

  - 802.3

    o 802.3 Industry Connections - New Ethernet Applications ICAID

  - 802.11

    o 802.11ax Amendment: High Efficiency WLAN, PAR Extension

    o 802.11ba Amendment: Low-power wake-up radio operation, PAR 
      Extension

    o 802.11bf Wireless Local Area Sensing (SENS),  PAR and CSD

  - 802.15 

    o 802.15 is considering 802.15.7a, an amendment to the standard on 
      optical and wireless communications.


5. MAC Address definition

  Scott Mansfield noted that the IETF and IEEE use different patterns 
  for MAC addresses. The IETF format uses colons (:) as separators, 
  while the IEEE format uses dashes (-). In IEEE specs, colons have a 
  defined meaning (bit-reversal of each hex digit). The bit-reversal 
  issue is historic; however, there has not yet been an amendment to 
  officially recognize that fact.

  The IEEE pattern allows both uppercase and lowercase characters, but 
  the description says only uppercase is used. The IETF pattern allows 
  both uppercase and lowercase characters, but makes no indication which 
  is used.

  There is an issue with strings; mac-address typedef is a string in 
  YANG. That means that when mac-address is used as a key, the format 
  used must match not only the separator (':' or '-'), but the case of 
  the character representing the hexadecimal number.

  SNMP is different. In SNMP, a MAC address was an OCTET STRING of size 
  6 with a display hint. On the wire, the MAC address is treated as a 
  string of octets that are not affected by the display hint or the 
  separator used, e.g. AE-12-FF would be the same as ae:12:ff.

  Greping the YANG repository, there are places in IEEE where ietf-yang-
  types are imported. However, there are no places where yang:mac-
  address is used in IEEE. 

  Scott Mansfield outlined some things that could be done:

  - Common wisdom says it is too late to change either the IEEE or IETF 
    definition to use a 6 byte binary array. 
    o This would fix the "on-the-wire" and key comparison issues.
  - Identify potential conflicts
    o Modules that use both yang:mac-address and ieee:mac-address and 
      try to compare them
    o Even if only one definition is used, some hints or guidelines 
      should be created because the format of the string (upper/
      lowercase) matters for comparison
  - IEEE should start a project to fix the definition of mac-address in 
    ieee802-types.yang
    o Align the format with the description
    o Or, as suggested: "The EtherType value represented in the 
      canonical order defined by IEEE 802. This value can contain 
      uppercase or lowercase alpha hex characters."
    o Coordinate with IETF and OpenConfig to understand options when 
      comparing IEEE formatted strings and IETF formatted strings.

  Action item: Scott Mansfield and Rob Wilton to get IEEE and IETF 
  people together to brainstorm a way forward that will allow exact 
  match string comparison for MAC addresses.


6. Review current coordination items

  - Item 5. Enabling use of Local Addresses for virtualization and IoT 

    Roger Marks reported that IEEE 802.1CQ is planned to be in task 
    group ballot by the end of June 2020.

    Roger Marks noted a concern with the assignment process in draft-
    ietf-dhc-mac-assign; the document does not explain the rules for 
    what addresses are available to be assigned. Eric Vyncke replied 
    that there is currently a Discuss on the document that says it 
    should be synchronized with IEEE, and that the rules should be added 
    to the document.

  - Item 21. 6tisch

    Pascal Thubert reported that the 6TISCH WG is almost done with their 
    chartered work items; once those are complete, the WG will move into 
    a dormant state.

  - Item 24. Coordination between the IETF and IEEE 802 on Pervasive 
    Monitoring

    This item will close when 802E is published, likely before the next 
    coordination meeting.

  - Item 25. Layer 2/Layer 3 Interaction for Time-Sensitive Traffic

    Deborah Brungard reported via email that draft-ietf-detnet-data-
    plane-framework has been approved for publication and is in the RFC 
    Editor Queue. Draft-ietf-detnet-ip is currently under IESG review 
    and is scheduled to be discussed at the IESG telechat on 2020-06-25.

  - Item 27. Development of YANG models in the IEEE 802

    Scott Mansfield and Rob Wilton took an action to get IEEE and IETF 
    people together to brainstorm a way forward that will allow exact 
    match string comparison for MAC addresses (see #5 on this agenda, 
    MAC Address definition).

  - Item 31. LPWAN

    Bob Heile reported that 802.15.4w has been approved and is currently 
    in the publication process.

    Action item: Bob Heile to email the coordination list once 802.15.4w 
    is published. Once it is published, item 31 on the coordination list 
    can be closed.

  - Item 32. Source Address Validation for Wireless LAN

    Pascal Thubert reported that draft-ietf-6lo-ap-nd has been approved 
    by the IESG and is currently in the RFC Editor Queue. Once the RFC 
    is published, this coordination item can be closed.

  - Item 33. Capability Discovery

    Alvaro Retana reported that there has been some progress on the LSVR 
    documents. draft-ietf-lsvr-l3dl-signing has been adopted by the WG, 
    and draft-ietf-lsvr-l3dl has been through WG Last Call. The 
    documents will progress together.

    Eric Vyncke noted that there is also a relevant draft in the ANIMA 
    WG that is under review.

  - Item 34. Reliable and Available Wireless (RAW)

    Deborah Brungard reported via email that there was no update on this 
    coordination item.

  - Possible New items

    Magnus Westerlund reported that 802.1Qcz recently made two port 
    requests that were rejected by the port number experts. Glenn 
    Parsons noted that they are currently examining the options that 
    were proposed instead; 802.1Qcz may end up requesting a port 
    registration directly from the IESG. 

    Action item: Glenn Parson will send the details of the rejected 
    802.1Qcz port requests to Magnus Westerlund.

    If this issue is not resolved before the next coordination call, it 
    will be added as a new item on the coordination list. 


7. July, November meeting plans

  Russ Housley noted that both IETF and IEEE 802 are planning for their 
  July meetings to take place online due to COVID-19. In theory, both 
  groups are scheduled to meet back-to-back in Bangkok in November, but 
  given the uncertainty of the current situation (e.g., Thailand has not 
  opened their borders back up), the coordination group did not make any 
  plans for a face-to-face meeting at this time. The group will meet 
  again via conference call sometime around September.


8. Adjourn