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Meeting Slides RFC Series Oversight Committee (RSOC) (rfcedprog) IAB ASG Snapshot
Date and time 2022-01-01 19:00
Title 2021-10-18-rsoc-minutes
State Active
Other versions plain text
Last updated 2022-06-10

October 18, 2021 RSOC Meeting

Reported by: Cindy Morgan, IETF Secretariat

 Sarah Banks 
 Jay Daley (IETF LLC Board Liaison, non-voting)
 Cullen Jennings (IAB Lead)
 John Levine, (Temporary RFC Series Project Manager, non-voting)
 Cindy Morgan (Scribe, non-voting)
 Adam Roach
 David Schinazi 
 Peter Saint-Andre (RSOC Chair) 

 Sandy Ginoza (RFC Production Center)

 Tony Hansen 


  - 2021-10-18: RSOC agrees that once 7991bis is stable, a script will 
    be used to fix the XML on documents that do not conform to RFC 7991, 
    and the documents will be re-rendered. After the documents are re-
    rendered, they will be checked to confirm that the text did not 

  - 2020 Decisions: 

  - 2019 Decisions: 



 - 2021-09-27: John Levine will make a proposed list of changes to 
   the SVG profile.

 - 2021-01-26: John Levine to start a discussion with the community 
   about whether the XML of an RFC can be changed as long as the text 
   remains immutable. 

In Progress:

 - 2021-03-15: John Levine and Peter Saint-Andre to discuss the 
   prioritization and time commitment needed to put together an end-to-
   end analysis to ensure that v3 XML can be used effectively and 
   seamlessly at all stages of the authoring process (Recommendation 
   8), and report back to the RSOC.
   * Deadline 2021-11


  - 2021-10-18: John Levine to update draft-iab-rfc7991bis.
   * Deadline 2021-11


1. Administrivia

  The minutes of the 2021-09-27 RSOC meeting were approved.

2. v3 Issues and Tools

  John Levine said said that if the XML of existing RFCs was reissued to 
  match the updated specification, the following things would change:

    - <postal> would be flattened to a list of lines rather than using 
      an abandonware format library
    - new defaults would be added for <t> and maybe other elements
    - docName would be removed from the <rfc> element or maybe repointed 
      to the published RFC rather than the draft

  John Levine noted that the Tiny profile the RPC has been using for SVG 
  has been abandoned and there does not appear to be a replacement. SVG 
  images with text are a particular concern, as the text needs to be 
  selectable and parsable by screen readers.

  Cullen Jennings said that screen readers should be using the alternate 
  text in those cases.

  John Levine replied that SVG is frequently used for equations.

  Jay Daley asked if MathML would be better for equations than SVG.

  Adam Roach said that would require a lot additional work on the 
  current tooling. There is only a small community that needs it, and 
  the work to support it is not trivial.

  Peter Saint-Andre said that equations are not a common use case, but 
  that the people who need equation support are vocal about what they 

  Jay Daley said that it should be made clear that screen readers are 
  expected to use the alternate text; there may need for a rendered 
  version specifically for screen readers.

  John Levine said that he will update the requirements for SVG and 
  start a discussion about it on the rfc-interest list so that no one is 

  Jay Daley noted that there is a set of rendered RFCs where the XML 
  does not conform to RFC 7991, but instead to extensions that were 
  added by Henrik Levkowetz. If those are not to be re-rendered, then 
  there will be a need for another spec in between 7991 and 7991bis.

  John Levine said that he thinks that everything should be re-rendered 
  to conform to 7991bis.

  Peter Saint-Andre asked what the next steps are for 7991bis.

  John Levine replied that he hopes to get it up to date within the next 

  * Action item: John Levine to update draft-iab-rfc7991bis.

  Once 7991bis is stable, the affected RFCs will be re-rendered to match 
  the updated spec. A script will be sed to fix the XML, and after the 
  documents are re-rendered they will confirm that the text has not 

3. Recommendations Following From the I-D Authors Survey

 * Recommendation 5:  The process by which authors review RPC changes 
   should be examined with a view towards understanding what tooling is 
   required if this process is to use XML and not plain text as the 
   common format.

 * Recommendation 8:  An end-to-end analysis is carried out to ensure 
   that v3 XML can be used effectively and seamlessly at all stages of 
   the authoring process.

  Jay Daley reported that he has started work documenting the tools on He is working with the IESG to merge the "Guidelines 
  to Authors of Internet-Drafts" into that. Jay is trying to set up a 
  meeting with interested people from the IESG on how to synchronize the microsite with GitHub.

  John Levine and Peter Saint-Andre are still discussing the 
  prioritization and time commitment needed to put together an end-to-
  end analysis to ensure that v3 XML can be used effectively and 
  seamlessly at all stages of the authoring process.

 * Recommendation 9:  A significant minority want to use Markdown or 
   similar and a strategic decision is needed on whether or not this 
   should be "officially" supported either in some stages or in the full 
   end-to-end authoring process. (see also Q20)

  Jay Daley reported that the use of Markdown for authoring I-Ds will be 
  discussed at the IAB/IESG/LLC workshop later this week.

  Cullen Jennings asked what the potential outcome of this would be.

  Jay Daley replied that he thinks that a standardized version of 
  Markdown is needed for the IETF, similar to how the IETF has its 
  version of XML. The Markdown could be supported with plugins to 
  existing editing tools and a rendering library.

4. RFC Editor Future Development Program Update 

  Peter Saint-Andre reported that draft-iab-rfcefdp-rfced-model-04 was 
  posted on 2021-10-11. The Program is still discussing two open issues 
  about vacancies in the RSAB and what constitutes quorum. The Program 
  hopes to resolve those issue this week and post a new revision so that 
  the document can go out for Last Call.

5. AOB

  Jay Daley reported that as the RFC Editor Future Development Program 
  is nearing completion, he has engaged a recruitment firm to help with 
  hiring the RFC Series Consulting Editor and is putting together a 
  search committee as outlined in the draft-iab-rfcefdp-rfced-model.

6. Next RSOC Meeting

  The next RSOC meeting is scheduled for Monday, November 15, 2021 at 
  4:00 PM PST.