Minutes of the TMRID BoF Session at IETF 106 in Singapore ========================================================= Minutes edited by Gonzalo Camarillo Meeting chaired by Daniel Migault and Gonzalo Camarillo Slides presented included in the proceedings Tuesday, November 19th, 2019, 100-1200 -------------------------------------- Topic: Agenda Bash Discussions led by: Chair The chairs introduced the Trustworthy Multipurpose Remote ID (TMRID) BoF. They stated that, if successful, this BoF could result in the chartering of a new working group or in the rechartering of the existing HIP WG. That decision would be up to the responsible area director (Éric Vyncke) in any case. -- Topic: Trustworthy Multipurpose Remote Identification for UAS Discussion led by: Stu Card Stu presented slides with background on the requirements for identifying Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS) in several use cases. It was discussed that ASTM would appreciate the IETF's help to develop further versions of their aircraft standards. In addition, an eventual IETF working group would need to liase with several other organizations as well. It was mentioned that authorities will likely be happy to see standards in this area because the use cases are important. If the technologies developed are to be used in manned aircrafts as well, reliability would be an extremely important property. Privacy requirements were discussed at length. The ability for an authority to identify a piece of hardware in a precise location could be problematic in some scenarios. Privacy should be in the protocol from the beginning, even if in some jurisdictions users may not have the right to privacy. With respect to security, an attacker could record the beacons and claim that the attacker received them somewhere else. We need to make sure that observers cannot falsify that they got. We also need to make sure that the proposed solutions are applicable in places other than the US as well. -- Topic: Authentication Message Formats Discussion led by: Adam Wiethuechter Adam presented slides on authentication message formats that have been proposed to be used so far. It was discussed that there are toys that are controlled by mobile phones over Bluetooth. It is important to check the state of the art in that area. -- Topic: Hackathon Report Discussion led by: Adam Wiethuechter Adam presented slides about the experience in the hackathon. He also asked for more implementations in the future so that they can perform interoperability testing. Any help will be welcome. -- Topic: Adding Hierarchical HIT Support to HIPv2 Discussion led by: Robert Moskowitz Bob presented slides on adding hierarchical HIT support to HIPv2. They could be used in use cases involving domain authorities. There will be a python script to generate HHITs shortly. Using 32 bits for hierarchy in the HHIT design involves compromises regarding the probability of having collisions. It was discussed that an attacker could launch a collision attack by managing to generate the same HIT as a existing drone. It was mentioned that using such an attack could probably take very few minutes to succeed. The proposal is to prevent this type of attack through the HHIT registration process. The registry would not have signed the attacker's public key that generated the same HIT as the drone. Understanding the actual level of protection that using HHITs in this context provides needs to be further studied. -- Topic: Augmenting HIP Registration to Register Hierarchical HITs Discussion led by: Robert Moskowitz Bob presented slides on augmenting HIP registration to register Hierarchical HITs. -- Topic: Adding New Crypto to HIP Discussion led by: Robert Moskowitz Bob presented slides on adding new crypto (e.g., new signature and hashing algorithms) to HIP. The benefits include smaller signatures, smaller public keys, faster hashing, lighter-weight code, fewer operations to generate keys, and less load on small devices. -- Topic: Successful BoF Questions Discussion led by: Chairs The chairs asked for input on the proposed charter. The charter proposal will need to also reflect the fact that the working group would liaise with other organizations. It was discussed that the HIP parts of the charter seem to be complete. Nevertheless, the non-HIP parts may need some more work. Also, the remote ID work could be applicable to other use cases in the future (e.g., IoT). Marine transport control could be an area where this could be also applied. It was indicated that there are programmers committed to prototyping all this in the next few months. The chairs asked the successful BoF questions to the room. There was strong support to form a working group around the proposed charter. Before doing that, there was consensus that more work on scoping the work to be done is needed. Eight people were willing edit or review documents. The responsible area director, Éric, asked people to continue working on this on the mailing list. -- The meeting ended.