HRPC 

 Agenda HRPC IETF 109

# Welcome and introduction (~0 minutes)

	Scribe, Note takers  Jonathan Heyland, Avri
	Agenda Review
	Research Group status

# Talk: Kim Crayton (30 minutes)

	"The internet IS political"

There was not discussion, but the talk may be refered to later in the meeting when we discuss draft-political

# Update: Guidelines draft and short presentations from reviewers (20 minutes)

	draft-irtf-hrpc-guidelines, Gurshabad Grover

# Updates: Research group drafts (40 minutes)

	draft-irtf-hrpc-association, Mallory Knodel
    
    
Just redrafted and updated.
Revised Research Question
Needs some polishing, pussible conclusion and a copy edit. Need more contribution and particpation.

Benjamin, attempt to predict is very difficult. principles for prediction even harder
Focus on reactive principles.

Avri Doria: Thanks for the effort, getting close. 

Christinan Huitema: We should consider resource-consumption. It is easier to consume from a server than from P2P networks, therefore we are inherently handing control of platforms over to server operators by default. 

Niels ten Oever: This also interacts with accessability and access, should we have a new section, or merge with a freedom of assembly?

Mallory Knodel: The manner of assembly may be defined by the plaform being used. So maybe we need to discuss the _quality_ of the assembly possible. 

Dan Harkins: Are there any prescriptive recommendations you could make? For example, require deniability in key yexchanges

Mallory Knodel: We want to be referencable, but I don't think we are able to be prescriptive.

Avri: We can suggestions you can ask yourrself, but I don't think we can be prescriptive. 

Mike English: Frame as tradeoffs rather than prescriptions. Many values and principles are in conflict, and may not easily be resolved with technical prescriptions. +1 to Ben Schwartz, we should work on improving our reactions to issues that arise. 

Mallory Knodel: +1 to Mike, we can focus on tensions and trade-offs. That's a very human rights thing. We should check we have done this for each section. Please open issues or PRs on our github.

Dan Harkins: The document should answer: What is it about a protocol that makes it "good" for association versus "bad".

## Guidelines:

Neils: We think we're nearly ready for last call. What do people think?
Mallory: What kind of feedback do you need now?
Neils: Is it ready to go? We think we have covered every thread on the mailing list. 
Avri: The document is ready for last call. 

## draft-political

Niels: Use the same process as draft-association

Avri: perhaps add content related to the Covenant on Civil and political rights


# AOB

	TBD