[{"author": "Lou Berger", "text": "sounded better before getting close to mic ;-)<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:31:18Z"}, {"author": "Paul Wouters", "text": "as for the AD, the responsible AD might not be here, but you have an irresponsible AD here :)<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:32:50Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "Maybe the LAMPS people can come back and finish their meeting<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:32:58Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "@Yoav - NO!!!!<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:34:16Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "Hey, just trying to be part of the solution<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:34:49Z"}, {"author": "Paul Wouters", "text": "linux as in XFRM ? :)<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:35:13Z"}, {"author": "Paul Wouters", "text": "I will assist Roman :)<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:35:58Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "The original -00 draft is from March 2010<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:40:47Z"}, {"author": "Christian Hopps", "text": "@paul that's the plan :)<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:40:50Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "Haven't read it in a while. *_a is authentication key *_e is encryption key. What's *_w?<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:42:31Z"}, {"author": "Tero Kivinen", "text": "wrapped<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:43:04Z"}, {"author": "Tero Kivinen", "text": "I.e., the key you use to wrap other keys<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:43:17Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "Ah, thanks<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:43:50Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "IIRC it wasn't there when I was a co-author<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:44:20Z"}, {"author": "Scott Fluhrer", "text": "ESM: IMHO, it should be MUST NOT.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:58:11Z"}, {"author": "Scott Fluhrer", "text": "ESN<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T11:58:27Z"}, {"author": "Scott Fluhrer", "text": "If you allow ESN, you need to outline how it needs to be handled - how does a GM learn the higher order bits<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:01:34Z"}, {"author": "Bob Moskowitz", "text": "Is the problem only ESN or will SCHC also be a problem?<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:06:09Z"}, {"author": "Bob Moskowitz", "text": "Maybe it is 'easy' to pass around SCHC policy compared to figuring out ESN.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:06:59Z"}, {"author": "Steffen Klassert", "text": "Not having ESN is not really futureproof.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:07:48Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "Is there an applications that is (1) multicast and (2) high-volume?<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:12:37Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "Rekeying is pretty cheap<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:13:02Z"}, {"author": "Christian Hopps", "text": "I would think video streaming would qualify as mcast + high volume..?<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:14:22Z"}, {"author": "Christian Hopps", "text": "(e.g., some pay-per-view sporting event perhaps)<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:15:05Z"}, {"author": "Scott Fluhrer", "text": "How long would a video stream have to go on to get to 4 billion packets?<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:15:29Z"}, {"author": "Christian Hopps", "text": "that's large group membership, multicast and high volume :)<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:15:34Z"}, {"author": "Christian Hopps", "text": "@scott i'd have to run a calc, this was just me brainstorming maybe it doesn't qualify<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:16:05Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "AFAIK none of the video streaming services use multicast<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:17:08Z"}, {"author": "Christian Hopps", "text": "I guess a lot would depend on the quality of the stream (4K? low loss?)<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:17:27Z"}, {"author": "Bob Moskowitz", "text": "NO do because it does not deliver the security they need to properly bill?<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:17:36Z"}, {"author": "Bob Moskowitz", "text": "None do...<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:17:46Z"}, {"author": "Christian Hopps", "text": "Right, and I'm not sure they don't use mcast to send to their CDNs <br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:18:02Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Migault", "text": "there is a WG on multicast.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:19:07Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "a 1080p video stream can be under 500 packets per second. Let's say they use smaller packets and it's 1000. So 4G should last over a month<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:22:57Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "Calculation based on 4.6 Mbps<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:23:17Z"}, {"author": "Christian Hopps", "text": "what about sending 8K streams, w/o loss to the CDN network?<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:23:41Z"}, {"author": "Christian Hopps", "text": "I'm trying to figure out how to calculate this myself :)<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:24:19Z"}, {"author": "Steffen Klassert", "text": "ESN might not be needed now, but all this should still make sense in 10 to 15 years.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:25:32Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "They also use more compression. So it likely goes to 20-30 Mbps, so just a couple of weeks?<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:26:16Z"}, {"author": "Tero Kivinen", "text": "We can make new extensions then when it is needed... <br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:26:26Z"}, {"author": "Christian Hopps", "text": "google/quara claims uncompressed 8k movie 2 hours long is 14.5TB<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:26:38Z"}, {"author": "Lou Berger", "text": "not in a video production application which runs uncompressed<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:26:42Z"}, {"author": "Paul Wouters", "text": "+1 to Tero<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:28:06Z"}, {"author": "Paul Wouters", "text": "thanks for all the work on this Valery !<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:28:55Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "14.5 TB for two hours is 2 GB per second, or 2M packets per second, which means the non-ESN SA is good for 2000 seconds or 40 minutes.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:29:40Z"}, {"author": "Paul Wouters", "text": "i will review. I tried but ran out of time<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:30:20Z"}, {"author": "Bob Moskowitz", "text": "bye.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:42:41Z"}, {"author": "Lou Berger", "text": "bye<br/>", "time": "2022-03-25T12:42:56Z"}]