[{"author": "Ujjwal Sharma", "text": "Hello!<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:03:52Z"}, {"author": "alexamirante", "text": "we're coming downstairs to try and reduce the echo<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:06:12Z"}, {"author": "Bron Gondwana", "text": "meetecho: our remote presenter is getting feedback from the room<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:06:46Z"}, {"author": "Bron Gondwana", "text": "thanks<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:06:50Z"}, {"author": "Ujjwal Sharma", "text": "the echo is gone<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:08:12Z"}, {"author": "Ujjwal Sharma", "text": "on my end anyway<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:08:16Z"}, {"author": "Ujjwal Sharma", "text": "note that this is needed just for backwards compat, it's not something we'd recommend people to use...<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:09:40Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "meetecho: we did turn off the queue and presenter mic :) only the chair mic is on right now<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:11:24Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "(we are not trying to make your life harder, I promise)<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:11:36Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "You aren't forced, but we should specify default semantics.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:18:12Z"}, {"author": "cabo", "text": "There can't really be default semantics <br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:18:40Z"}, {"author": "cabo", "text": "For something that is broken<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:18:46Z"}, {"author": "Ujjwal Sharma", "text": "can I respond to this or should I wait for the queue?<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:19:00Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "@carsten: Disagree. I'll go to the mic.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:19:07Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "@meetecho: Serious echo problem still here.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:20:41Z"}, {"author": "Ujjwal Sharma", "text": "the ability to mute everyone else? that's the best feature for standards stuff /s<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:20:52Z"}, {"author": "Neil Jenkins", "text": "I agree completely with Pete here.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:27:02Z"}, {"author": "Ujjwal Sharma", "text": "its meaningful for arithmetic too, the meeting today was scheduled at the offset specified in the timestamp, but a routine to schedule a meeting one week in the future could take things like DST into account<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:27:58Z"}, {"author": "John C Klensin", "text": "Strongly agree with Pete.&nbsp;&nbsp;Having this depend on DWIM or \"guess what the person who created this meant when it was created\" exclusively is just bad news.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:31:54Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "There needs to be a default and there needs to be a marker. Ambiguity is bad.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:32:11Z"}, {"author": "cabo", "text": "John: You are arguing from a position that the system must do something to resolve the unsolvable problem.&nbsp;&nbsp;That will never be a good solution.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:32:42Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "@Michael: I'm OK if the default is \"I meant the local time\" or \"I meant the numeric offset\", but the other one must be explicitly marked.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:33:30Z"}, {"author": "cabo", "text": "Pete: That is already decided: This is an RFC 3339 timestamp.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:34:39Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "So the default is \"trust the offset\".<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:35:02Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "/s/trust/intended<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:35:35Z"}, {"author": "John C Klensin", "text": "@Carsten: I am arguing that whomever creates one of these things should have the ability to state what they mean/intend.&nbsp;&nbsp;As Pete says, ambiguity is bad.&nbsp;&nbsp;It is especially bad if we _require_ the ambiguity.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:35:39Z"}, {"author": "cabo", "text": "If the ambiguity is the reality, hiding that is bad.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:37:17Z"}, {"author": "Ujjwal Sharma", "text": "@Pete: that's exactly my original suggestion, sans the explicit marker but I do support Bron's proposal to include an explicit marker<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:39:01Z"}, {"author": "John C Klensin", "text": "Yes about the reality... and there is (very slightly) disagree with Pete.&nbsp;&nbsp;If we can't get away from the ambiguity (and some of my experience suggests that is the case), there must be a way to identify the intent in either case.&nbsp;&nbsp;If someone leaves that out, let it be on their heads.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:39:15Z"}, {"author": "Ujjwal Sharma", "text": "the ability to disregard the offset in favor of the TZ tag makes us open the \"floating times\" can of worms. It's an extremely useful and important use case and one I'd love to support, but my understanding was that we decided to keep it out of scope of this current draft.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:40:49Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "My knee-jerk reaction is \"Yuck. I hate the topic.\" :-)<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:41:41Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "What does \"reject\" mean?<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:43:45Z"}, {"author": "Ujjwal Sharma", "text": "Informative Timestamps?<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:47:38Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "\"Extended\" is fine.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:47:44Z"}, {"author": "John C Klensin", "text": "Not-so-random gibberish?<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:47:55Z"}, {"author": "Ujjwal Sharma", "text": "I'd be happy to define calendars, we need it for Temporal :D<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:50:12Z"}, {"author": "Ujjwal Sharma", "text": "I did them bottom-up because I didn't want to deviate from 3339, but support top-down<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:52:20Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "Speaking as a long time writer of ABNF: I don't care.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:52:26Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "Do what you want to do.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:52:55Z"}, {"author": "John C Klensin", "text": "FWIW, I don't care either, but I think the usual practice in the IETF has been top-down.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:53:34Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "*22 did some basics at the top, and then the higher-level ones in later sections, but top-down within sections.<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:54:29Z"}, {"author": "Ujjwal Sharma", "text": "let's do it! I'm all up for more meetings :D<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:56:18Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "thank you all! Thanks Bron!<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:56:50Z"}, {"author": "Ujjwal Sharma", "text": "thanks everyone for the productive discussion<br/>", "time": "2022-03-21T12:57:03Z"}]