[{"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

ntz ntz ntz ntz

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:01:25Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "

I can't believe that this has been running for 2 years.

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:03:29Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "

RFC 6709, for instance

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:04:09Z"}, {"author": "Antoine Fressancourt", "text": "

Error on intentionally malformed messages rather than silent dropping is a highway to DDoS

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:22:24Z"}, {"author": "Antoine Fressancourt", "text": "

There is a need to put the burden on the sender of malformed message rather than on the receiver

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:23:06Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "

@Brian Trammell is being mixed by Daft Punk

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:25:37Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "

in real time

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:25:41Z"}, {"author": "Dave Thaler", "text": "

Brian's audio is choppy :(

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:26:26Z"}, {"author": "Alessandro Amirante", "text": "

Bad audio is not Brian's fault, there's a networking issue at the venue the NOC is sorting out

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:27:17Z"}, {"author": "Dave Thaler", "text": "

@Antoine Fressancourt agree, I put myself back in queue to say that (and related points to distinguish when each is right)

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:27:38Z"}, {"author": "Alessandro Amirante", "text": "

it should be fixed now.

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:28:45Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

choppy audio: just trying to keep the edm theme. audio was good after I dropped video though, yes?

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:29:48Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Pauly", "text": "

Correct!

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:30:28Z"}, {"author": "Antoine Fressancourt", "text": "

Accepting options you don\u2019t understand in case you are not the intended receiver is key to ipv6 extensibility, and if you are the receiver then drop silently

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:30:29Z"}, {"author": "Antoine Fressancourt", "text": "

@Dave Thaler agree with your connection / connectionless distinction

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:33:42Z"}, {"author": "Antoine Fressancourt", "text": "

Agree on the fact that protocol development lifecycle has not changed that much when chips or ASICS are involved

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:35:57Z"}, {"author": "Alessandro Amirante", "text": "

Brian Trammell said:

\n
\n

choppy audio: just trying to keep the edm theme. audio was good after I dropped video though, yes?

\n
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yes but it was a coincidence. the NOC worked around a bad route at the same time you stopped your video, and so things improved

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:37:26Z"}, {"author": "Deborah Brungard", "text": "

In case my audio is bad, +++1 Wes

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:37:47Z"}, {"author": "Uri Blumenthal", "text": "

Audio quality is horrible, bordering on unintelligible. Audio stream bandwidth indicated as 9-10kbps, not a whole lot, compared to 279kbps video.

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:38:39Z"}, {"author": "Uri Blumenthal", "text": "

Stopping video feed did not improve audio.

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:39:28Z"}, {"author": "Deborah Brungard", "text": "

Apple may be able to survive crashes, I\u2019d say that\u2019s a corner case, not most

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:39:47Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Pauly", "text": "

@Deborah, what do you mean? I don't follow. When was it saying that something should crash?

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:41:16Z"}, {"author": "Antoine Fressancourt", "text": "

Having the whole protocol ecosystem agree is ok when you have 2 or 3 implementations, not in a completely fragmented space

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:42:04Z"}, {"author": "Uri Blumenthal", "text": "

Video dropped to 127kbps. Audio at 7-8kbps. Quality - worse than in 1990-ties and 9600bps modems. Not very flattering for IETF.

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:43:44Z"}, {"author": "Uri Blumenthal", "text": "

Following discussion is impossible now - audio too choppy.

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:44:25Z"}, {"author": "Deborah Brungard", "text": "

@Tommy, Brian and others were saying protocol deployment has changed, that today do earlier and crashes are ok. Maybe for an Apple deployment, not for in general.

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:45:15Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "

I don't know where this idea that this was intended as a bludgeon for \"bad protocols\" or \"bad deployments\" came from, but that was never intended and I can't find any way to interpret the text that way.

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:45:27Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

(out of the queue because my comment reduced to \"I agree with MT\")

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:46:06Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "

I realize that this idea that updates are necessary is something that I will stand by.

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:46:24Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

I think the doc should be explicit about that

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:46:40Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Pauly", "text": "

@Deborah I'm not sure why you'd call out Apple here? But I think that was just saying when you are bringing up a new implementation test in a hackathon, your test code can crash so you see your bugs.

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:46:52Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

\"If you're on the Internet and you don't have an immune system, you're going to have a bad time\" is... true

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:46:55Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Pauly", "text": "

@Brian, agreed

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:47:05Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "

@Brian Trammell yeah, that's something that I think is almost a distraction from this document.

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:47:23Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

doc should probably state its assumptions about the properties of the lifecycles it applies to

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:47:34Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "

It's true, but also this document only needs to acknowledge the range of ways in which protocol actors might change (or not)

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:48:09Z"}, {"author": "Dave Thaler", "text": "

Even logging errors in some cases can be used for an attack (against disk space, or bandwidth on the backend network if logs are network messages), so must be a consideration

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:48:12Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

and there probably needs to be another doc that explores the robustness of protocols where you can't do that.

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:48:17Z"}, {"author": "Jabber", "text": "

dkg: deborah? you're on queue

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:48:40Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

+1 dave

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:49:19Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

this discussion has a lot of people making assumptions that their operational envelopes are the same as everyone else's...

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:52:13Z"}, {"author": "Colin Perkins", "text": "

It should have a dissent, like legal opinions

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:53:15Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

(for example, I don't operate in a world where bugfix releases and upgrade releases are different, and for the most point deployments are version-heterogeneous. But I get that a lot of organizations have a different process.)

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:53:22Z"}, {"author": "Deborah Brungard", "text": "

@Tommy, totally agree, demo code. Production ready is very different.

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:53:55Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

+1 mirja, short is good

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:54:40Z"}, {"author": "Jabber", "text": "

dkg: MT: updates might be both necessary and hard (maybe impossible)

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:56:00Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Pauly", "text": "

Indeed

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:56:01Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

great to see y'all, have a good thursday!

", "time": "2022-07-28T13:56:51Z"}]