@Pete Resnick you can refresh the materials from the icon on top, and after that use the settings icon and \"Manage Slides\" to import the updated one
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:30:39Z"}, {"author": "Lorenzo Miniero", "text": "Refreshing first is needed as otherwise we'll still work on the snapshot we took before
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:31:09Z"}, {"author": "Ted Hardie", "text": "Pete, I suspect that wasn't for the mic, but just to let you know you are audible but lightly so at the moment.
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:31:17Z"}, {"author": "Jabber", "text": "mcr: But, Kirsty, thanks to the magic of youtube archival, your voice won't be ephemeral!! :-)
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:35:12Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "Pete, glad you are summarizing the slides but the type on some of them is too small to be readable in Meetecho even on a large screen
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:36:09Z"}, {"author": "Kirsty Paine", "text": "Hi John, thanks for the feedback - we will make these larger font for the next meeting to help with accessibility needs.
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:37:03Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "@meetecho: You might want to pan the front camera to look at Lars.
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:42:19Z"}, {"author": "Jabber", "text": "mcr: maybe the TAO is perfect, and that's why we aren't updating it more :-)
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:42:24Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "@John Klensin There is a Zoom button in Meetecho you might try. But thanks for the reminder.
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:44:40Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "@Pete: that button only sort of works in the current version. Bug report when I have time.
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:47:35Z"}, {"author": "Samuel Weiler", "text": "please only publish it in one place. No RFC snapshots.
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:48:13Z"}, {"author": "Peter Koch", "text": "what are the most recent updating cycles of this doc?
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:49:30Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "@Peter: That was earlier in the slides.
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:49:51Z"}, {"author": "Samuel Weiler", "text": "@Peter Koch I think it was on an earlier slide...
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:49:52Z"}, {"author": "Peter Koch", "text": "my bad, apologies
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:50:08Z"}, {"author": "Karen O'Donoghue", "text": "As a follow up to my comment, not a statement on what it should be, just a statement on how newcomers discover it
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:50:15Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "On the screen now.
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:50:16Z"}, {"author": "Barry Leiba", "text": "What
\nEkr is saying is exactly what I meant by \u201crefocus\u201d.
tnx @pr
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:50:28Z"}, {"author": "Lucas Pardue", "text": "we need a TikTao
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:50:44Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "ekr - That's the first I heard \"let the tao continue to exist but quit pretending its a newcomers guide\" - I think that's particularly useful.
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:51:19Z"}, {"author": "Karen O'Donoghue", "text": "I agree it isn\u2019t that useful to newcomers.
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:53:39Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "The conversation so far hasn't really reflected the recent crunch. Rich did a _lot_ to provide an update. The current process gates stopped that work hard.
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:55:07Z"}, {"author": "Jim Fenton", "text": "the webpage says it was updates 2018-11-08, not in 2022.
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:55:11Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "So the \"updates since\" is misleading
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:55:14Z"}, {"author": "Donald Eastlake", "text": "Different people absorb information in different ways. I think it is useful to some newcomers.
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:55:34Z"}, {"author": "Samuel Weiler", "text": "we've done that. it's just not on the slide: 6722. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6722
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:58:21Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "/me flinches everytime I hear 'emo'
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:59:22Z"}, {"author": "Jonathan Hoyland", "text": "For the record I did read (and enjoy) it before I started coming to the IETF
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:59:29Z"}, {"author": "Justin Richer", "text": "I have neither read nor enjoyed the document, fwiw.
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:59:43Z"}, {"author": "Colin Perkins", "text": "So did I. But that was in 1996.
", "time": "2022-07-27T17:59:48Z"}, {"author": "Samuel Weiler", "text": "sorry, 6722 is on the (other) slides
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:00:39Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "Did you mean to re-add yourself Jay?
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:01:36Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "+1 to Jay's point on the tao being likely to put off (most) newcomers
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:01:42Z"}, {"author": "Jay Daley", "text": "no sorry pete, thought I was removing myself
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:02:34Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "Probably while I removed you. Race conditions stink. :wink:
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:03:04Z"}, {"author": "Karen O'Donoghue", "text": "I like the idea of a tombstone document and a pointer to something maintained in a wiki with improvements as suggested by Jay
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:03:06Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "georgios needs to speak into the mic
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:03:16Z"}, {"author": "Jean Mahoney", "text": "place to capture issues: https://github.com/ietf/tao/issues
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:03:48Z"}, {"author": "Christine Pukropski", "text": "I am a newcomer and it was too much to read.. I like the videos. I think breaking it up and moving it to a new format using github for revisions would be a smart move. Then as a newcomer, if I have feedback I could just open a PR to change it, which is a typical paradigm
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:03:56Z"}, {"author": "Jim Fenton", "text": "There is still the process question of who approves changes to the Tao. IESG approval seems much too heavy, but we don't want just anyone to be able to update it without review.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:04:29Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "Perhaps start by (re)defining the purpose of the tao or its replacement, its target audience etc. I suspect that part of the problem is that the current document is trying to do too many things.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:04:47Z"}, {"author": "Samuel Weiler", "text": "how many newcomers are in the gendispatch room?
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:05:05Z"}, {"author": "Christine Pukropski", "text": "who owns the tao?
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:05:11Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "@christine - the iesg right now, really, and that's a crux point of the question being asked.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:05:47Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "As an example, I am not a newcomer but have trouble keeping track of dot colors. We need to get better at being sure there are pointers in FAQs or other things easily found from Meeting and/or agenda pages.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:06:00Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Jensen", "text": "I was a newcomer three years ago, and TIL what the Tao is (just to add a data point). I asked questions of members and just risked sounding stupid.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:06:01Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "Officially, the IESG approves, but I believe the edu/training people are taking responsibility for the writing.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:06:21Z"}, {"author": "Tommy Jensen", "text": "+1 to modern, non-RFC official documentation
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:06:49Z"}, {"author": "Jim Fenton", "text": "@John Klensin At least the dots now have something like \"CHAIR\" printed on them to help with that.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:07:05Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "Luckily, most newcomers have good eyesight to read the tiny type on the dots.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:07:45Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "@jim - not as obvious in MeetEcho, but at least there are tooltips there.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:07:45Z"}, {"author": "Jay Daley", "text": "I suggested on tao-discuss that it should be split into four parts, and produced this as an example of one of those parts: https://notes.ietf.org/Hp8iHjWxRc6eFqg--woGww?view
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:08:20Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "Pete Resnick said:
\n\n\nLuckily, most newcomers have good eyesight to read the tiny type on the dots.
\n
hard enough to read _names_ on badges without being socially awkward.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:08:51Z"}, {"author": "Christine Pukropski", "text": "whatever the new format / location / name is it should be accessible from the home page... it took me clicking around for a while to find it. and it should also have quick links to things like the glossary which was super valuable, and how to sign up for a mailing list, which took me way longer than I care to admit...
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:08:57Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "@christine - thanks. keep observations like that coming.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:09:40Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "@Jim, Pete: But non-newcomers with failing memories and eyesights... I wonder how many IETF dot-holders would welcome my walking up to them, standing very close, grabbing the badge and pulling it up to where I could read the fine type :-(
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:10:29Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "Dispatch to Emodir?
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:11:12Z"}, {"author": "Jim Fenton", "text": "sounds right
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:11:30Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "@Pete, Kristy: would gendispatch welcome an I-D specifying minimum font sizes, etc., for slides? Are we at the point where that is needed?
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:11:57Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "(too unbaked (not even half) to justify any meeting time today.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:13:08Z"}, {"author": "Christine Pukropski", "text": "I can't attend the feedback session tomorrow :( but ill try and compile all my feedback and paste it back here
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:13:37Z"}, {"author": "Christine Pukropski", "text": ".. or is the mailing list better?
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:14:02Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "mailing list is probably best
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:14:48Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "+1 to being explicit and to the scope Ted suggests.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:16:15Z"}, {"author": "Jabber", "text": "mcr: As a proponent of expanded eligibility I'm in favour of this process.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:16:17Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "Charter draft looks good (or at least close enough) to me... and agree with Ted (or we need to separate those contingent eligibilities)
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:16:23Z"}, {"author": "Olaf Kolkman", "text": "+1 - should do this, with broad interpretation of the eligibility applicability.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:18:10Z"}, {"author": "Olaf Kolkman", "text": "BOFless is good
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:18:20Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "No bof
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:18:20Z"}, {"author": "Russ Housley", "text": "No BOF
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:18:33Z"}, {"author": "Mirja K\u00fchlewind", "text": "I would be concerned if we need a BoF for that
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:18:52Z"}, {"author": "David Schinazi", "text": "+1 no BoF
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:18:54Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "+1 no BOF
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:19:03Z"}, {"author": "David Schinazi", "text": "VIOLENT AGREEMENT
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:19:22Z"}, {"author": "Samuel Weiler", "text": "token dissent? anyone? anyone?
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:19:33Z"}, {"author": "David Schinazi", "text": "I hear Pete is stepping down from a WG
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:19:47Z"}, {"author": "Ted Hardie", "text": "I'm willing to dissent from volunteering.
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:19:51Z"}, {"author": "David Schinazi", "text": "I'm willing to volunteer Ted
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:20:14Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "This is into the WG work
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:20:57Z"}, {"author": "Mirja K\u00fchlewind", "text": "in the weeds? isn't that tradition?
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:21:20Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": ":clap:
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:25:11Z"}, {"author": "Jean Mahoney", "text": "thanks, Pete!
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:25:22Z"}, {"author": "Jonathan Hoyland", "text": "@MeetEcho: Adjourned
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:25:35Z"}, {"author": "Kirsty Paine", "text": "Thanks Pete, I will miss co-chairing with you! :clap:
", "time": "2022-07-27T18:25:39Z"}]