[{"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "

(your audio is a little faint, mallory)

", "time": "2022-07-28T17:30:53Z"}, {"author": "Colin Perkins", "text": "

You're very quiet, Mallory

", "time": "2022-07-28T17:32:16Z"}, {"author": "Niels ten Oever", "text": "

Please eat the mic, Mallory

", "time": "2022-07-28T17:32:39Z"}, {"author": "Nat Meysenburg", "text": "

Agreed. Can hardly hear Mallory.

", "time": "2022-07-28T17:32:47Z"}, {"author": "Colin Perkins", "text": "

@meetecho can you adjust chair volume?

", "time": "2022-07-28T17:33:25Z"}, {"author": "Niels ten Oever", "text": "

Good volume now for me

", "time": "2022-07-28T17:34:10Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "

I'm taking notes here: https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-114-hrpc

", "time": "2022-07-28T17:37:05Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "

(but I may need help when we get to the documents, as I may also be speaking as a doc shepherd)

", "time": "2022-07-28T17:37:32Z"}, {"author": "Sofia Celi", "text": "

great talk!

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:03:54Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

Really love to see these questions popping up across the IETF/IRTF, not just in one place.

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:05:47Z"}, {"author": "Sofia Celi", "text": "

or what does it mean a 'green' device

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:10:08Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

I recall GreenHost and (also, not surprisingly) GreenNet have colo centres that meet some bar for sustainability. Would be good to survey what that looks like.

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:10:59Z"}, {"author": "Lars Eggert", "text": "

on the answer to niels' question: eve schooler and noa zilberman gave a talk at hotcarbon a few weeks ago, and want to bring some effort on relevant metrics and standards to ietf/irtf

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:11:30Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

awesome pointer, lars, thanks. we can try to compliment that work ideally

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:12:02Z"}, {"author": "Lars Eggert", "text": "

https://hotcarbon.org/pdf/hotcarbon22-zilberman.pdf

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:12:17Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

closing the queue soon

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:12:24Z"}, {"author": "Lars Eggert", "text": "

https://youtu.be/3TnhbHmdBjw for those of you who like video

\n
", "time": "2022-07-28T18:12:46Z"}, {"author": "Lars Eggert", "text": "

(rest of program was good too: https://hotcarbon.org/program/) - EOM

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:13:09Z"}, {"author": "Nat Meysenburg", "text": "

I do wonder about the intersection of agriculture and networking when it comes to ag equipment, and if there is agriculture specific issues that are not covered by IoT more broadly.

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:17:08Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

I, for one, would love suggestions on ag-tech experts who would like to speak at HRPC. Will do my own research as well.

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:18:39Z"}, {"author": "Simon Hicks", "text": "

Get RFCs to consider topics, eg the environment and ask if there is a better way (which they may have consciously chosen to reject)

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:21:36Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "

green/sustainability side meeting also suggested use of the recipe mailing list as an existing place to discuss energy usage and reductions

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:23:06Z"}, {"author": "Sofia Celi", "text": "

seeing climate change as threat to human rights is definitely something to discuss. There was some discussion around this about climate refugees some time ago..

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:23:33Z"}, {"author": "Simon Hicks", "text": "

Maybe get RFCs to deliberately consider a few key topics, eg the environment, and note how they have worked on specific issues

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:24:16Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "

can someone help with the notes? I'm having network issues

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:24:37Z"}, {"author": "Sofia Celi", "text": "

I'll be @Nick Doty

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:25:45Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "

@Simon I think it would be great to have Sustainability Considerations in every RFC! but to be effective, we will need guidance on how to do it, or what mitigations should be employed, etc.

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:27:04Z"}, {"author": "Lars Eggert", "text": "

(IETF Chair hat on.) It will be difficult to mandate that for every RFC. But a step in that direction could be to identify some ongoing work where such a section would make sense, and work with those authors to add one to just those few initial documents. That would demonstrate to the rest of the community the value of such an effort, and maybe help convince them down the road on doing it more widely.

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:32:18Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

To Nick's point, writing down the guidance would be the first step for sure.

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:32:44Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

In the case of our group, first we published on the wider problem space (RFC 8280) and now we are publishing the guidance (draft-guidelines).

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:33:23Z"}, {"author": "Sofia Celi", "text": "

great talk as well!

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:51:35Z"}, {"author": "Alan Hayward", "text": "

An excellent presentation by Alana Ramjit albeit on a disturbing issue. For information I am aware that ETSI TC Cyber have a work item entitled 'Guide to Cyber Security for consumer Internet of Things' which includes 'Consideration of domestic abuse in the consumer IoT environment'

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:51:39Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "

intimate partner violence threat modeling is so incredibly useful

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:51:44Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "

should we be thinking about adding this to security considerations / security threat modeling? or is it an entirely different/orthogonal concept that we should consider separately from security?

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:52:35Z"}, {"author": "Sofia Celi", "text": "

We are developing a draft of these considerations precisely @Nick Doty

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:55:06Z"}, {"author": "Sofia Celi", "text": "

You can join the effort as well!

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:55:16Z"}, {"author": "Lars Eggert", "text": "

@Nick Doty that's an interesting suggestion. We do seem to have this inbaked assumption that each users is (or can be) their own separate entity, which is clearly not accurate

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:55:22Z"}, {"author": "Sofia Celi", "text": "

It is very, very common. It shouldn't be treated as an \"edge\" case

", "time": "2022-07-28T18:56:15Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "

yes, I would love to help with that threat modeling update doc (whether that's 3552 updates, or something in hrpc, or elsewhere)

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:01:23Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

Such a good point, Shivan, that user agents have thought about this carefully in the past. Good practice there in threat modeling and devising mitigations.

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:05:24Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "

it seems a good practice to still be modest about what you can protect against when the attacker does have access to the local device, but that humility doesn't need to be \"game over\" or no limits whatsoever

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:07:02Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

Plus one thousand, Sofi.

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:09:09Z"}, {"author": "Shivan Sahib", "text": "

Incognito mode is one \"protection\" against a local attacker, but that protection is also extremely confusing for users. But sounds like we need to do something more subtle here than just not-persist the state across sessions - we might want fake state (or something)

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:10:55Z"}, {"author": "Sofia Celi", "text": "

yeah, passwords and authentication records that persist in the browser is something we can look into as well

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:13:09Z"}, {"author": "Niels ten Oever", "text": "

We have made a new version + response after that.

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:13:27Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Gropper", "text": "

For a newbie, please add links to the two current drafts into this chat.

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:14:04Z"}, {"author": "Niels ten Oever", "text": "

This was also the work Sandra Braman was interested in

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:16:28Z"}, {"author": "Niels ten Oever", "text": "

Also in the new version?

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:18:22Z"}, {"author": "Niels ten Oever", "text": "

Every point in the draft has a particular example, am slightly confused.

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:18:55Z"}, {"author": "Niels ten Oever", "text": "

Authors come from different jurisdictions

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:19:32Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "

Adrian, could you write up the question about delegation and privacy considerations?

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:25:42Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Gropper", "text": "

Yes. Link to where I would post it?

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:26:38Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

Here is fine-- we can get it into the notes

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:27:48Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

or also hrpc@irtf.org

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:28:01Z"}, {"author": "David McAuley", "text": "

Thank you Mallory and Sofia and speakers - interesting. I must leave for another meeting at bottom of the hour.

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:29:03Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

Thanks for coming

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:29:22Z"}, {"author": "Sofia Celi", "text": "

the documents are here @Adrian Gropper https://datatracker.ietf.org/rg/hrpc/documents/

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:31:08Z"}, {"author": "Sofia Celi", "text": "

reviews welcome of: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-irtf-hrpc-association/

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:31:39Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Gropper", "text": "

I volunteer to participate in the Freedom of Association document. agropper@healthurl.com

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:32:09Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "

will do

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:34:39Z"}, {"author": "Niels ten Oever", "text": "

Thanks all

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:35:41Z"}, {"author": "Sofia Celi", "text": "

thank you all for coming!

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:35:54Z"}, {"author": "Niels ten Oever", "text": "

Bye

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:35:59Z"}, {"author": "Olaf Kolkman", "text": "

thanks

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:36:00Z"}, {"author": "avri doria", "text": "

Bye

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:36:08Z"}, {"author": "Nick Doty", "text": "

thanks everyone, and especially loved those talks

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:36:09Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

THANKS FOR THE NOTES

", "time": "2022-07-28T19:36:10Z"}]