[{"author": "Tony Li", "text": "

Starting a 'Bad Attitude' Zulip topic.

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:01:32Z"}, {"author": "Julien Meuric", "text": "

Already?

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:02:33Z"}, {"author": "Tony Li", "text": "

Just continuing a 20 year old tradition.

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:03:13Z"}, {"author": "Tony Li", "text": "

There are actually three implementations that have been claimed. They don't interoperate.

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:06:29Z"}, {"author": "Les Ginsberg", "text": "

That is Labor Day week - many folks may be on vacation. Might sometime later in September be better?

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:08:06Z"}, {"author": "Ketan Talaulikar", "text": "

Can't see the slides as yet. Is it just me ?

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:09:26Z"}, {"author": "Jeff Tantsura", "text": "

No slides

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:09:36Z"}, {"author": "Boris Khasanov", "text": "

same

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:09:37Z"}, {"author": "Ketan Talaulikar", "text": "

the agenda

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:09:38Z"}, {"author": "Yingzhen Qu", "text": "

the agenda

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:09:44Z"}, {"author": "Jie Dong", "text": "

no slides

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:09:52Z"}, {"author": "Dhruv Dhody", "text": "

If we could do a few things in parallel like getting directorate review right away instead of after AD review could be one such option

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:15:16Z"}, {"author": "Dhruv Dhody", "text": "

Assigned RTG DIR reviews to routing experts could also be one (can also be an exercise in preparing future ADs)

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:16:32Z"}, {"author": "Dan Voyer", "text": "

hey - showed up late, I do not object

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:19:53Z"}, {"author": "Stefano Previdi", "text": "

my hand was cut... I do not object...

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:20:16Z"}, {"author": "Jie Dong", "text": "

@Acee, we have two separate slides deck

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:21:13Z"}, {"author": "John Scudder", "text": "

(deleted)

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:30:27Z"}, {"author": "John Scudder", "text": "

There\u2019s a datatracker state \u201cparked WG document\u201d that might be usable depending on the outcome of this discussion.

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:31:00Z"}, {"author": "Ketan Talaulikar", "text": "

My suggestion was to roll in all the contents from draft-ietf-lsr-isis-sr-vtn-mt into draft-ietf-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn. Both are informational. There is no IGP mechanisms, only about the provisioning/use of existing mechanisms which is more suitable for the SPRING document.

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:34:38Z"}, {"author": "Joel Halpern", "text": "

The 6man draft talked both about VTN-ID and about VTN Resource ID. We need to be careful and clear.

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:37:12Z"}, {"author": "Les Ginsberg", "text": "

My point is that until LSR agrees to adopt extending the IGPs to support VTNs (which we have not yet done) it is premature to publish a document describing how MT could be used. This is being done in the wrong order.

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:37:39Z"}, {"author": "Joel Halpern", "text": "

@Les Ginsberg Yes, there does seem to be an ordering issue.

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:38:13Z"}, {"author": "Jie Dong", "text": "

@ketan draft-ietf-spring-sr-for-enhanced-vpn is like an architecture which can apply to different protocol mechanisms, including the two mechanisms presented today and another more scalable mechanism which was presented before

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:46:39Z"}, {"author": "Jie Dong", "text": "

@Joel the 6man draft is about the scalable mechanism you mentioned, which allows to share the same topology among multiple VTNs. The two drafts presented today are based on resource-aware SIDs, thus they are different from the 6man VTN resource-ID in data plane

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:49:26Z"}, {"author": "Jie Dong", "text": "

@Les do you mean the informational MT based draft relies on other LSR drafts which proposes IGP extensions? That was not what I heard from the chairs, What they just said is the MT draft will move forward together with the VPN+ framework draft in TEAS.

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:53:43Z"}, {"author": "Ketan Talaulikar", "text": "

@Jie, my suggestion was based on looking at the contents of both informational drafts (LSR MT and SPRING). I am not talking about the FlexAlgo one that you presented.

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:54:35Z"}, {"author": "Joel Halpern", "text": "

@Jie Dong If I am reading your message above properly, it seems to me that we should focus on the scalable solution. As Mike O'Dell said MANY years ago, \"scaling is the only hard problem\".

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:55:47Z"}, {"author": "Les Ginsberg", "text": "

@Jie Why would we describe how to use IGP MT before we agree to use IGP to support VTN at all?

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:57:07Z"}, {"author": "Zhibo Hu", "text": "

@Les not use IGP? Does the IS there any protocol replace the IGP?

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:59:01Z"}, {"author": "Jie Dong", "text": "

@Ketan, thanks for your suggestion. My concern was if MT is added to the SPRING draft, it may make that draft less general as it is now and give people the impression that MT is the default solution. But I will think about it

", "time": "2022-07-29T14:59:45Z"}, {"author": "Les Ginsberg", "text": "

@Zhibo There are drafts to define IGP extensions to support VTN. Those have not yet been adopted - let alone progressed. If they are not adopted there is no reason to discuss how to use MT.

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:00:55Z"}, {"author": "Zhibo Hu", "text": "

@Jel I remember someone saying that slicing is a toolbox, and we need to provide tools to meet the different requirements of slicing.

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:01:18Z"}, {"author": "Eduard V", "text": "

Picture has a mistake. TN-C could not be green, because B exists. It is not very important

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:02:37Z"}, {"author": "Jie Dong", "text": "

@Joel As you know the more scalable solution requires either control plane or data plane extensions, which will take time in standardization and implementation. And we have customers who just need a small number of VTNs, and they need a solution which just can meet their requirements

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:02:40Z"}, {"author": "Aijun Wang", "text": "

@Les, \"how to use MT\" is the requirements document, IGP extension for VTN is the solution, shouldn't we first adopt the requirement document?

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:03:25Z"}, {"author": "John Scudder", "text": "

\u201cEarly davinci\u201d\u2026 I\u2019m picturing three-year-old Leonardo with crayons.

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:03:33Z"}, {"author": "Les Ginsberg", "text": "

@Jie I disagree w your characterization.

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:03:54Z"}, {"author": "Jie Dong", "text": "

@Les I still don't get your point about one informational draft in LSR relies on another IGP extension document, especially the latter is not a reference of the previous one.

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:05:46Z"}, {"author": "Bill Fenner", "text": "

John Scudder said:

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\u201cEarly davinci\u201d\u2026 I\u2019m picturing three-year-old Leonardo with crayons.

\n
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In fact there were more crayon colors on the original if you download the ppt, somehow the meetecho conversion got rid of the blue

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:09:56Z"}, {"author": "Jeff Tantsura", "text": "

New 3 letter acronym for IETF - URV - unnamed reputable vendor

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:27:51Z"}, {"author": "Randy Bush", "text": "

they are unnamed because they do not exist

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:28:37Z"}, {"author": "Ketan Talaulikar", "text": "

UAV - unnamed acclaimed vendor

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:29:02Z"}, {"author": "Jeff Tantsura", "text": "

There are ones that \u201cshall not be named\u201d too ;-)

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:29:17Z"}, {"author": "Dan Voyer", "text": "

yeah, I'm one of them to get this problem solved in the IGP :)

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:34:59Z"}, {"author": "Jie Dong", "text": "

Another question to the UPA authors, is this informational or standard track ?

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:35:39Z"}, {"author": "Peter Psenak", "text": "

up to WG to decide

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:35:54Z"}, {"author": "Dan Voyer", "text": "

@Jie, as of now, it's informational

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:36:10Z"}, {"author": "Jorge Rabadan", "text": "

Peter Psenak said:

\n
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up to WG to decide

\n
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but this seems to change the behavior of the ABRs, is that not enough to make it standards track?

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:36:41Z"}, {"author": "Jeff Tantsura", "text": "

I\u2019d think - it should progress as informational, since there\u2019s no change to the protocol, but rather another application using a state distributed by the protocol, changes at ABR/L2L1 aren\u2019t changing protocol semantics

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:39:12Z"}, {"author": "Peter Psenak", "text": "

I would say it's at the border

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:39:34Z"}, {"author": "Peter Psenak", "text": "

I'm fine both ways

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:39:43Z"}, {"author": "Jie Dong", "text": "

My reading it is not just the ABRs, but also the PEs which will rely this to trigger the switchover, while you expect the other nodes to ignore it

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:44:17Z"}, {"author": "Jeff Tantsura", "text": "

@jie, which is in scoop of the current definition, \u201cother than spf\u201d

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:48:14Z"}, {"author": "Ketan Talaulikar", "text": "

@Peter, there are more things in the PUA draft that also need to change.

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:49:43Z"}, {"author": "Jie Dong", "text": "

@jeff announcing the prefix is unreachable is just one of the possibility of \"other than SPF\", and we can see the PE/ABR and other nodes are asked to behave differently to the same message.

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:50:45Z"}, {"author": "John Scudder", "text": "

Anyone want to try to tell me what \"rogue information\" means?

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:56:18Z"}, {"author": "Julien Meuric", "text": "

John Scudder said:

\n
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Anyone want to try to tell me what \"rogue information\" means?

\n
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Fake news?

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:57:16Z"}, {"author": "John Scudder", "text": "

... yeah, that's what I thought. OK, we do not know what it means.

", "time": "2022-07-29T15:57:47Z"}, {"author": "Tony Li", "text": "

Bye all!

", "time": "2022-07-29T16:00:32Z"}, {"author": "Jeff Tantsura", "text": "

Bye all

", "time": "2022-07-29T16:01:41Z"}, {"author": "Randy Bush", "text": "

chow for niao

", "time": "2022-07-29T16:01:54Z"}, {"author": "Jie Dong", "text": "

bye IETF 114

", "time": "2022-07-29T16:02:06Z"}, {"author": "Dhruv Dhody", "text": "

bye see you at :flag-gb:

", "time": "2022-07-29T16:02:11Z"}]