**NMRG 67th meeting** **IETF 115, Hybrid** Monday 2022-11-07 09:30 UTC https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/115/session/29826.ics * * * Contacts: * RG Chairs * Laurent Ciavaglia [laurent.ciavaglia@nokia.com](mailto:laurent.ciavaglia@nokia.com) * Jérôme François [jerome.francois@inria.fr](mailto:jerome.francois@inria.fr) * RG Secretaries * Jéferson Campos Nobre [jcnobre@inf.ufrgs.br](mailto:jcnobre@inf.ufrgs.br) * Pedro Martinez-Julia [pedromj@gmail.com](mailto:pedromj@gmail.com) * * * **Useful links:** * Materials: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/115/session/nmrg * Meetecho: https://meetings.conf.meetecho.com/ietf115/?group=nmrg * Notes: https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-115-nmrg * Video recording: https://www.youtube.com/user/ietf/playlists (available post-meeting) * * * **Agenda**: * 09:30 Introduction and RG status, RG Chairs, 05 min * Intent Based Networking * IETF Network Slice Intent, Luis Contreras, 10 min. / 09:35 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-contreras-nmrg-transport-slice-intent * Interconnection Intents, Luis Contreras, 10 min. / 09:45 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-contreras-nmrg-interconnection-intents * Network measurement intent, Danyang Chen, 10 min. / 09:55 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yang-nmrg-network-measurement-intent * Artificial Intelligence for Network Management * Research Challenges in Artificial Intelligence for Network Management, Jérôme François, 10 min. / 10:05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-francois-nmrg-ai-challenges * Considerations of deploying AI services in a distributed approach, Yong-Geun Hong, 10 min. / 10:15 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hong-nmrg-ai-deploy * Network Digital Twin * Performance-Oriented Digital Twins for Packet and Optical Networks, Chris Janz, 10 min. / 10:25 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-paillisse-nmrg-performance-digital-twin * Requirements for Interfaces of Network Digital Twin, Danyang Chen, 10 min. / 10:35 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-paillisse-nmrg-performance-digital-twin * Miscellaneous * Challenges and Opportunities in Green Networking, Alex Clemm, 15 min. / 10:45 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cx-green-ps * Modelling Boundaries, Nigel Davis, 15 min. / 11:00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-davis-netmod-modelling-boundaries * * * **Notes**: * 09:30 Introduction and RG status, RG Chairs, 05 min * RG updates: * Two RFCs on intent-based networking (IBN) published (RFC9315 and RFC9316) * Several documents for potential RG adoption * IBN use cases * Research challenges in AI for Network Management * Updates to NMRG research agenda with new topics to be discussed * AI for NM * Network Digital Twin * Green Networking * Intent Based Networking * IETF Network Slice Intent, Luis Contreras, 10 min. / 09:35 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-contreras-nmrg-transport-slice-intent Q-Mohamed Boucadair: On Slide 3: is tagging an intent as SLO or SLE part of the intent "formulation" itself or is it part of the translation process? A-Luis: part of the translation process Q-Alex Clemm: what is subject to standardization vs. research? A-Luis: intent expression, assurance phase potentially more research topics. translation process rahter more straightforward and for PoC / standardization (TEAS?) Q-Olga: Do you use TMF intent model or do you start from scratch? A-Luis: offer that in a general manner * Interconnection Intents, Luis Contreras, 10 min. / 09:45 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-contreras-nmrg-interconnection-intents Q-Dhruv: is it customer-provider or provider-provider interactions? A-Luis: provider to provider Comment from Jérôme on question from authors Two options for progressing the work 1. For authors of one draft to join the effort of the other draft, working together on separated drafts 2. To merge the drafts while maintaining differentiated sections for the specificities of each draft • Question to the Chairs and the RG: What do you think is the best approach? Jérôme: need first to identify commonalities to see how much could be merged and if this would make sense. * Network measurement intent, Kehan Yao, 10 min. / 09:55 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-yang-nmrg-network-measurement-intent Discussion on approach for IBN use case documents: a common document or separate ones. Previous poll on preference - outcome ? -> suggestion: bring the discussion to the mailing list and authors/RG participants to express preference. * Artificial Intelligence for Network Management * Research Challenges in Artificial Intelligence for Network Management, Jérôme François, 10 min. / 10:05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-francois-nmrg-ai-challenges Q-Diego: sustainaiblity of supervised method? what about distributed AI (not only federated)? maybe to add A-Jérôme: looking for some help regarding federated/distributed AI A-Diego: I can help on that Comment-Laurent: important to "publish" the challenges (RFC or article); and next step: investigate one or more challenges in NMRG (and with ohter groups / communities) * Considerations of deploying AI services in a distributed approach, Yong-Geun Hong, 10 min. / 10:15 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hong-nmrg-ai-deploy Q-Alex: more system management or network management? considerations for federated learning, transfer learning? would like to see more "network-side" A-Yong-Geun: agree. welcome inputs. Q-Jeff: mentioned "vertical" hierarchy (remote/close edge) vs. "horizontal" hierarchy (ability to run the inference on one or multiple servers) A-Yong-Geun: agree. part of our study. will put more details on this consideration Comment-Jeferson: It would be nice to have the similarities between this draft and the research challenges one pointed out * Network Digital Twin * Performance-Oriented Digital Twins for Packet and Optical Networks, Chris Janz, 10 min. / 10:25 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-paillisse-nmrg-performance-digital-twin Q-Sharon Barkai: consider making DT of the traffic patterns? (IPFIX-based twins) A-Chris: consdered in the first version. not relevant for the optical network DT. A-Jordi: not currently in scope. Q-Laurent: Do you consider also "configuration" type of interactions on the NII interface? e.g. to configure collection/measurement/monitoring information flows to the PODT? (or are these configurations handled at another interface / by other processes) Q-Alex: wrt. question on slide #7 (Information-DT and/or Action-DT). consider Action-DT is the more general case. A-Chris: new capability provided by information-DT. Action-DT, management system can be built using other/known constructs (intent renderer, closed loops, etc.) A-Jordi: definition of NDT. scope of Action-DT too broad. * Requirements for Interfaces of Network Digital Twin, Danyang Chen, 10 min. / 10:35 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-paillisse-nmrg-performance-digital-twin Comment-Laurent: need discussion on interfaces to network digital twin (cf. also previous draft/presentation) Comment-Jérôme: new I-D. Invite comments on the mailing list. * Miscellaneous * Challenges and Opportunities in Green Networking, Alex Clemm, 15 min. / 10:45 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cx-green-ps Q-Jeff: reaching limits. cannot deploy anymore due to amount of energy required. Q-Diego: in support. taking into consideration... similar to previous discussion by Chris(?) regarding information vs. action Q-? Clarification of scope? Tests to prove the sustentability of a network A-Alex: holistic view vs "network" view can be considered Q-?: Interesting topic. Just energy consumption or other issues such as recycling? A-Alex: Some metrics (sustentability metric?) could consider other issues. Comment-Jeff: Power consumption metric could be considered for computation Comment-Laurent: it is important to frame the problem space and what NMRG can realistically address * Modelling Boundaries, Nigel Davis, 15 min. / 11:00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-davis-netmod-modelling-boundaries Comment-Laurent: it is an interesting topic. would be good to continue the dsicussion\*