[{"author": "Kirsty Paine", "text": "

Note-takers, please head over to: https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-116-gendispatch

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:04:30Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

Once upon a time, the \"terminal room\" used to provide a printer. Is that gone entirely?

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:08:49Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

The printer facility is also at the registration area this time.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:12:12Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

As long as it doesn't get lost as a possibility/ consideration

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:12:35Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "

One of the factors in deciding not to travel this time was that I'd have to travel to the conference facility anyway, so even if I could afford the conference hotel, there would be no advantage.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:14:21Z"}, {"author": "Jason Livingood", "text": "

@JK - people used to print boarding passes mostly - now just use a mobile app ;-)

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:14:43Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "

+1 to the \u201cone roof\u201d preference

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:17:34Z"}, {"author": "Peter Koch", "text": "

given that we've had hotels where elevator congestion made it 10 mins to 'travel' room to/from lobby, I wonder how to measure '5-10-15' mins walk ...

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:17:37Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

@Jason: it wasn't common (and of course I wasn't physically attending every meeting even before the pandemic) but there have been times when I discovered I needed printed notes to organize a WG meeting or presentation at one.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:17:37Z"}, {"author": "Ian Williams", "text": "

FWIW, I feel like I speak from a position of privilege here, given that I've got young/strong legs and enjoy a short walk in the morning.
\nbut, trying to be considerate of everyone @ IETF

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:19:37Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

And I (like others) did a lousy job of answering the dispatch question: I think on this first question, it should be dispatched the /dev/null.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:20:08Z"}, {"author": "Ian Williams", "text": "

I happen to be at another hotel slightly closer, but I don't have the luxury of a skybridge, so I get to try and time the crossing lights. :horizontal_traffic_light:

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:21:44Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "

The IETF network feature which matters is direct routing, low-latency so that COVID+ ADs can attend all their meetings...

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:23:29Z"}, {"author": "Joel Halpern", "text": "

@John Klensin Sounds like they are proposing to drop the printer.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:26:24Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "

Agree with Barry.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:26:38Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "

Thank you Barry

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:26:44Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "

maybe recharter shmoo :-)

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:26:55Z"}, {"author": "Adrian Farrel", "text": "

Can we please not discuss the technical details of this draft now?

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:27:05Z"}, {"author": "Jason Livingood", "text": "

+1

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:28:21Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "

+1 to despatch to working group

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:28:58Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

Given my employer, I wish to be absolutely clear that I don't have an official opinion about this, but the idea of a WG on this meeting topic fills me with depression. The last time we did this, the number of ratholes was extraordinary and apparently reproductive.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:31:46Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

Having been one of the people to survive chairing the last go-round on this, I believe that if we can avoid a WG it would be a good thing.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:32:21Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "

I think that it could less of a rathole this time... but I see your point @Pete and @Andrew.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:33:41Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

The way the mic line is going, you really think it could be less of a rathole?

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:33:57Z"}, {"author": "Margaret Cullen", "text": "

I still miss Minneapolis in March... :-)

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:34:25Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "

The document/effort could be better time-boxed, and could fail.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:34:35Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

@Adrian Understood and agreed. On the other hand, if an issue has been insufficiently analyzed/ developed, that is, historically, a reason to say \"no WG yet -- BOF or another presentation next time\" And, addressing Andrew's and Pete's point, narrowing the scope of questions (including saying \"use your judgment\" on some topics to the LLC) is one tested way to minimize the rathole population.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:35:16Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

@Margaret I've been sitting her thinking about a 15 minute walk, outdoors, there :-(

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:35:51Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

s/her/here/

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:36:00Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

On the question of filtering, the answer to Jay's question is that this compromise in the document is as good as it's going to get. We fought over every one of those commas.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:36:48Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "

Despatch to a time-bound working group?

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:37:33Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

+1 to mnot

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:38:38Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

+1 to mnot, except that discussion should not only be on admin-discuss, needs broader consideration (I'm fine with use of ietf@ for such)

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:39:47Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

@Stephen: +1

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:40:01Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

gen-AD sponsored would be fine

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:42:10Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

I do not feel strongly about admin-discuss vs. ietf@ietf

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:42:29Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

I didn't say I felt strongly:-)

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:42:49Z"}, {"author": "Jason Livingood", "text": "

You could create a new single-purpose mailing list?

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:43:30Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

\"only effective tool is working group\" does not mean \"if working group, it's an effective tool\"/

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:43:32Z"}, {"author": "Jason Livingood", "text": "

Challenge is finding the right folks to comment beyond very active / core participants

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:44:08Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

I do disagree with mnot and others about ietf@ being good/bad fwiw, so yet another mailing list is meh

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:44:13Z"}, {"author": "Ian Williams", "text": "

re: filtering, question from a newbie - has IETF ever held a meeting in a locale which did have some level of regulatory web filtering?

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:45:03Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

@Ian; You mean like Beijing?

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:45:27Z"}, {"author": "Kirsty Paine", "text": "

How about a mix? Mailing list for an initial round of feedback, then wider ietf or discuss for broader feedback?

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:45:30Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

#4 is the one that most requires consideration from people who'd not be into administrivia I think

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:45:41Z"}, {"author": "Ian Williams", "text": "

Beijing would be one, yeah, guess I should've looked at the list

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:46:10Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

#4 was litigated for months last time.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:46:28Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

beijing ietf n/w was special, i.e. not filtered as is typical in .cn

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:46:41Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

@Ian: this was obviously more efficient

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:46:54Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

There isn't any way to get broad community consensus on that, because even when we were talking about it various filters were getting stronger. We had a huge argument about it in London, IIRC.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:47:05Z"}, {"author": "Ian Williams", "text": "

Stephen Farrell said:

\n
\n

beijing ietf n/w was special, i.e. not filtered as is typical in .cn

\n
\n

I'm sure there's some fun stories there.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:47:36Z"}, {"author": "Jason Livingood", "text": "

To reiterate my point at the mic: IMO many of these things are not pulled out of thin air. Rather there is good data on many of these points going back many years, so as discussion occurs in the future IMO that data and associated trends & costs should be shared to help inform community discussion.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:49:54Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

-1 to humming

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:50:08Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

The things on which Stephen and Pete agree should always be noted...

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:50:42Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

If we are not going to discard #1, it is important to remember there is another interaction between #1 and #2: more distance often increases the importance of multiple small gathering spaces within the meeting facility -- something that, AFAIK, has never been an explicit requirement.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:50:46Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

10:37 is not \"we can rule that out\" unless we are now voting.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:52:38Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

Agree with @John Klensin strongly. That said, it does say that there's going to require a good bit of convincing of people to have a WG.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:53:50Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

is there a n/w anywhere with no filtering of any kind?

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:54:29Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "

I'm a bit bothered by the show of hands we just did an what it was interpreted to mean

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:54:37Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "

I'm ok if we report x% of the room felt a working group wasn't needed.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:55:24Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "

but \"pursuing a working group is off the table\" which is what i heard the chairs say, doesn't seem the right takeaway.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:56:01Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "

Beijing also had guards (I'm told) keeping people without badges from entering and using the unfiltered network.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:56:20Z"}, {"author": "Cullen Jennings", "text": "

So I have a proposal on what filtering we should allow. Where should I send it ?

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:56:46Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

@fluffy; your proposal will be dropped

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:57:07Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "

I feel like we have lists that we could just re-use.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:57:32Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

I am not sure that everyone in this discussion has read 8718

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:57:33Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

@Michael: Not just the network... there was a lot more attention paid to who had a badge than we generally have

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:57:44Z"}, {"author": "Cullen Jennings", "text": "

I'm sending it over IPv4 so I sort of assumed it would be dropped

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:57:58Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "

@John, that's what I was referring to.

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:58:09Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

There are very few mandatory criteria in that RFC. https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8718.html#name-mandatory-criteria

", "time": "2023-03-29T04:58:17Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

meta comment for fun: I think we're beyond the bound of the utility of the original dispatch concept that the rai area introduced

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:00:02Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

@Stephen Farrell : I've always thought that gendispatch had a mushier charter than other dispatch groups.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:00:59Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

[citation needed] on it being a full time job

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:01:19Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

I didn't spend anywhere near full time on this

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:01:26Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

I don't believe that it takes two terms to learn to do the job well

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:01:51Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "

AD is 0.5 EKR, and most people can only put out 0.4 EKR of power.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:02:04Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

I agree with ekr on the takes-2-terms thing, maybe 6 months to get used to it

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:02:20Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

Joel Jaeggli did far less than full time (successfully).

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:02:29Z"}, {"author": "Martin Duke", "text": "

+1 ekr

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:02:43Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

@Eric Rescorla The slide says 2 years, not 2 terms.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:03:34Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

being an AD is a pile of work, we don't need to define the pile much more

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:03:42Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

\"we created the Ixxx which begat the iyyy which....\"

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:04:58Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "

I believe that all of the statements on this slide are commonly stated, whether they are factually correct or not

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:05:00Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

first bullet is true, 2nd 2 are overstated

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:05:39Z"}, {"author": "Michael Richardson", "text": "

I believe we should dispatch this to the IESG. The IESG, as a culture, needs to decide to do less.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:06:52Z"}, {"author": "Martin Duke", "text": "

+1 Michael

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:07:02Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

I mean it seems to me that the underlying issue is the assumption that the ADs have to review all of the documents

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:07:22Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

@mcr: I'm not sure the IESG can solve this tbh, it was given a good shot when I was on there but couldn't

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:07:26Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

And in order to address it you would need to have the convention that the ADs didn't do as much review

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:07:49Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

I mean, that's part of what I did. When I read a document that I didn't think had any security stuff, I mostly just stopped reding

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:08:11Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

having fewer ADs was my fav idea, but it didn't work then

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:08:15Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

Well, this isn't my diagnosis of why there's so much IESG-> IAB flow

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:10:16Z"}, {"author": "Cullen Jennings", "text": "

sort of agree with this slide

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:10:27Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

@ekr Nor mine

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:10:46Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

I was never an AD, so that's my anecdotal contribution to this discussion :)

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:11:01Z"}, {"author": "Cullen Jennings", "text": "

Thoughts on what leads to significant rate of IEST -> IAB ?

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:11:33Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

seems like a good idea that ADs have been WG chairs for almost all people (could be exceptions but should be v. v. rare)

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:11:40Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

Name recognition

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:11:41Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

Given that the IAB selection is largely like \"does this person seem smart\" .

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:12:13Z"}, {"author": "Cullen Jennings", "text": "

@ekr - that makes sense

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:12:15Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

Then \"I recognize this person from the IESG\" is a huge leg up

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:12:23Z"}, {"author": "Martin Duke", "text": "

term limits reduces the candidate pool,!

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:12:48Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

Maybe we could have term limits to 0 terms

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:13:37Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

there were also ADs who spent all their time and weren't that good weren't there:-)

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:13:51Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

Hey, I wasn't that good on only part of my time!

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:14:07Z"}, {"author": "Martin Duke", "text": "

is it a problem if people coast on the IAB? Serious question

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:15:23Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

not a problem for the individual IAB members, no

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:15:42Z"}, {"author": "Robert Sparks", "text": "

@martin - its a problem that larger IABs cost us resources and if a smaller would do, make it smaller

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:16:03Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

and remove all the personnel stuff

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:16:26Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

I don't think it's necessarily a problem if people coast on the IAB, but I do think it's a problem if the only opportunities for that sort of honor are limited to people who were on the IESG

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:16:29Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "

Greater diversity of background of the IAB members would be great but I believe is constrained by the current tech-heavy job spec

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:16:56Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

@Robert: conversely, having some people coast reduces the amount of work the IAB can realistically do. Whether that is significant or not depends on what we expect from the IAB ... a question that was punted by POISED and stays punted.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:18:01Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

actual IAB job is bureaucracy-heavy

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:18:05Z"}, {"author": "Martin Duke", "text": "

I don't have enough +++++ for what ekr is saying

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:18:27Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

I would note that writing down \"community expectations\" is a good way to ossify the job even more than it is, because getting consensus on an update would be a colossal amount of work.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:18:28Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

@Andrew +1... but that doesn't change my comment above.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:19:14Z"}, {"author": "Victor Kuarsingh", "text": "

Size reduction, based on today's workload for the IAB, may over optimize and then reduce abilities in the future.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:19:21Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

The whole convention that the IESG is some sort of super-review body that isn't just there to ratify consensus but rather to individually review each document is why it's so much work

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:20:52Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

And in order for it to be less work, ADs would have to willing to just not pass technical judgement on documents

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:21:26Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

Reducing size could also increase the percentage of the work that is bureaucracy and equivalent... and that reduces the incentives of people to serve... unless they are motivated by the recognition and/or \"retirement home\" aspects.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:21:37Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

Even when they think those documents are bad!

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:21:38Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

@ekr: that's not the kind of person who gets involved in the iETF though (for all of us there're things we can't resist nit picking)

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:22:06Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

term limits might be worth a go

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:22:31Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

@Stephen Farrell Well, like I said, when I was AD I did punt a lot of documents that I didn't think were likely to have serious security problems

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:22:38Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

And I believe Jon Peterson did the same

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:22:46Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

sure, I'd bet a beer it'd have been possible to write a doc that'd have gotten a guaranteed DISCUSS from ya though:-)

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:23:13Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

@Stephen Farrell I did say I punted a lot of documents, not all of them :)

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:23:43Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

But it worked a lot better if they were long and would have been a lot of work to process

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:24:08Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

NFS

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:24:23Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

I agree with Joel on that, whassup with this being back here?

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:26:28Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

It bounced?

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:26:39Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

see meta-comment upthread

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:26:50Z"}, {"author": "Jim Reid", "text": "

@Stephen Farrell, if the IAB workload is bureaucracy heavy, why can't that part of the job get punted elsewhere? Could someone be paid to deal with that drudgery?

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:27:39Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

@jim: yeah I was thinking there's currently a lot of laid-off IT HR people could do most of it

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:28:14Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

(when I was briefly on it, IAB spent loadsa time on appointments)

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:28:36Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

Well we could just appoint people by lottery

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:29:44Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

I've even more lost about dispatchery now

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:29:48Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

Part of the reason people coast on the IAB is because the job requires different skills than they are actually selected for. (Technical skill is selected for more than it ought.)

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:29:53Z"}, {"author": "Mirja K\u00fchlewind", "text": "

I put my name up for the IAB because I actually thought my experience could be helpful and I should do something useful with this experience. Also I suddenly had a bit of time after stepping down as AD. I think it's good to have some people with IESG experience (doesn't have to be fresh) and for sure that not a mandatory requirement (we have maybe IAB members who have not been on the IESG). Most important is however, that people are willing to actually do work on the IAB (but that's something you never know for sure in advance).

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:30:19Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

@Mirja K\u00fchlewind Sure, but of course \"some\" != \"most\"

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:31:02Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

stephan's comment seemed to be assuming joel's document indicates or sets policy

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:32:16Z"}, {"author": "Alissa Cooper", "text": "

the authors have been pretty clear that this document is not meant to be a policy

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:32:29Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

yup

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:32:35Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

Right, and I think Stephan was saying that it should be policy.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:32:43Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

But that it doesn't.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:32:50Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

but it also doesn't \"put it all in one place\" ?

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:33:26Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

I think the chairs are right that these remarks are not dispatch questions, though.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:34:06Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

confusion growing...

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:34:25Z"}, {"author": "Mirja K\u00fchlewind", "text": "

no guarantees about my stat skill at a wed of an IETF meeting but this new IAB as 4-ex ADs out of 12 (2 switched over directly)

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:35:10Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

there is no WG for this

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:35:17Z"}, {"author": "Stephan Wenger", "text": "

A policy that's called policy, complete with enforcement mechanisms, would be best IMO. However, guidelines as proposed are the second best option, and people want that rather policy. I operate here under the principle that the perfect is the enemy of the good.Not having anything exposes the IETF and its participants to certain risks that increasingly will become hurdles for participation.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:37:40Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

The choices were not as binary as presented by ekr: It could be a default to previous dispatch with a re-presentation to see if there was wild objection to doing so, and the chairs could find that the objections here were not loud enough to overturn.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:37:57Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

I don't think the choice of list was in any way a problem

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:38:12Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "

Or at least might not be as binary as presented.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:38:15Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

\"several people are typing\"

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:38:47Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

just send Joel's draft to LAMPS? :-)

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:40:21Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

\"A coherent approach is needed\" seems like TBBA

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:45:47Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

so a working group to tell the irtf and iab what to do? hmm....

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:48:09Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "

@Stephen It doesn\u2019t say that?

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:48:40Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

For those reasons and others, I don't see any way to dispatch to a WG without seeing a draft charter and, especially, a scope statement.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:49:12Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

@andrew: which that?

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:49:28Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "

@Stephen sorry! the bit about telling the IRTF, IAB what to do

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:50:11Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

thought I heard the speaker suggest a WG to do exactly that

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:51:06Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

@Stephen That is what I heard too

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:51:26Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

I don't think \"tell what to do\" is the way I'd understand it. But to try to describe the gap.

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:53:39Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "

We should always tell the IRTF what to do!

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:54:45Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

send 'em along! (with tech clue first though)

", "time": "2023-03-29T05:59:22Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "

I think the \"with tech clue first\" requirement is somewhat problematic.

", "time": "2023-03-29T06:00:06Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Campling", "text": "

Could this be dispatched to Emodir?

", "time": "2023-03-29T06:00:38Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

@andrew: can't see it working well withinIIETF otherwise

", "time": "2023-03-29T06:00:44Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

Is the result a BoF?

", "time": "2023-03-29T06:01:06Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

Did the authors even ask for a BoF?

", "time": "2023-03-29T06:01:13Z"}]