Hello everybody from Zurich!
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:00:15Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "https://ietf-wg-httpapi.github.io/
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:10:50Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "very accurate Rich, thank you :)
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:10:51Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "Project status board https://github.com/orgs/ietf-wg-httpapi/projects/1/views/1
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:11:44Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "hello. i am on chat only today.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:12:12Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "I can also mention that Zahed has volunteered to take on the docs that are with me (link-template and yaml media types)
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:12:41Z"}, {"author": "Erik Wilde", "text": "\"I don't think it's a controversial thing.\" Ha! ;-)
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:16:07Z"}, {"author": "Evert Pot", "text": "Couldn't it be treated similar to HTTP headers? there's no std- prefix there either
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:17:06Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "@evert The concern is a conflict new properties we add in the future with existing extensions that have been created in the past.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:18:37Z"}, {"author": "Roberto Polli", "text": "I think this \"prefix-\" idea smells a bit
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:19:05Z"}, {"author": "Evert Pot", "text": "Is that also an issue with HTTP headers potentially ?
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:19:15Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "@Mark Nottingham @Erik Wilde is there issue opened for the 400 error example?
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:19:56Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "@sanjay Not yet.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:20:37Z"}, {"author": "Erik Wilde", "text": "good point @sanjay, there definitely should be one.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:21:10Z"}, {"author": "Roberto Polli", "text": "You welcome :)
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:28:41Z"}, {"author": "Erik Wilde", "text": "here you go, @sanjay: https://github.com/ietf-wg-httpapi/rfc7807bis/issues/76
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:31:19Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "thanks @darrel for prototyping for binary vs string structure field. i do not have strong opinion on this as far as while debugging and searching logs while doing root cause analysis.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:31:25Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "thanks you captured
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:31:58Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "i am only on chat today
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:32:06Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "Declaring that you ought to compare UUIDs on a byte-by-byte basis even when they are sf-string seems like a good idea.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:33:17Z"}, {"author": "Roberto Polli", "text": "maybe binary can be used to bake other information in the I-K field
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:33:30Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "Are sf-strings ever compared on other than a byte-by-byte basis?
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:33:54Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "@roberto example of other things?
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:33:56Z"}, {"author": "Erik Wilde", "text": "sounds like an evolving \"Best practices for datatypes in SF values\" spec? I remember @mnot mentioning a similar approach for dateTime values.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:34:04Z"}, {"author": "Evert Pot", "text": "My weakly held opinion is opaque string keys are much nicer to handle in some languages and would rather see sf-string without a prescribed format like UUID
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:34:06Z"}, {"author": "Mark Nottingham", "text": "I mean you could specify it as a string or bytes -- allow both forms.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:34:16Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "(\"Comparing strings\" is just one of those magic phrases that cause us i18n people heartburn.)
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:35:01Z"}, {"author": "Mark Nottingham", "text": "+1 string
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:36:12Z"}, {"author": "Evert Pot", "text": "+1 too =)
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:36:26Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "+1 string yay!
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:36:30Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "I can assure you that during Last-Call someone is going to call out the string comparison question if you don't specify it carefully.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:36:53Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "thanks darrel!
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:36:58Z"}, {"author": "Mark Nottingham", "text": "Pete: they're ascii strings, if that helps.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:37:07Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "we do not have any other issues
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:37:20Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "@Mark Nottingham Case-sensitive ascii strings?
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:37:33Z"}, {"author": "Mark Nottingham", "text": "yes
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:37:43Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "So long as that's specified, yes, far less heartburn.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:38:00Z"}, {"author": "Roberto Polli", "text": "We are especially interested in have feedback from plaftorm folks.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:41:59Z"}, {"author": "Roberto Polli", "text": ":clap: Darrel
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:42:28Z"}, {"author": "Erik Wilde", "text": "thanks @darrel for pitching in!
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:42:48Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "Erik Wilde said:
\n\n\nhere you go, @sanjay: https://github.com/ietf-wg-httpapi/rfc7807bis/issues/76
\n
Thanks!
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:43:15Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "deprecation headers and sunset headers are like warning signs informing about respective events. if those dates are in human readable, it would help. imo.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:46:12Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "regardless lifecycle or individual events, date is important for these events. so format for date is important to resolve.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:47:59Z"}, {"author": "Evert Pot", "text": "FYI We're using the Sunset headers and really like it
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:49:28Z"}, {"author": "Roberto Polli", "text": "IIUC this is targeted at APIs, not U-A
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:50:04Z"}, {"author": "Roberto Polli", "text": "well, not browser U-A
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:50:34Z"}, {"author": "Erik Wilde", "text": "This also is useful for intermediaries like API gateways.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:50:36Z"}, {"author": "Erik Wilde", "text": "They could use these signals to for example update their \"catalog\" of APIs that they manage.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:51:12Z"}, {"author": "Roberto Polli", "text": "+1
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:51:22Z"}, {"author": "Erik Wilde", "text": "There also is the question of whether an API would return this on all resources or just on special ones such as \"home resources\". I am in favor of that latter approach.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:52:05Z"}, {"author": "Roberto Polli", "text": "@Darrel: in your experience, do you confirm that there's value in human-readability for this specific use-case?
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:52:31Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "@roberto In all of the cases we use it for, there is some form of processing before the developer sees it.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:53:46Z"}, {"author": "Hans-J\u00f6rg Happel", "text": "thanks @Erik
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:54:10Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "I did!
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:54:37Z"}, {"author": "Erik Wilde", "text": "+1
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:54:52Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "Erik and I spoke about that
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:55:07Z"}, {"author": "Erik Wilde", "text": "as a side note: a lifecycle header would also compete with sunset which is an RFC. but i guess that would be ok.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:56:05Z"}, {"author": "Mark Nottingham", "text": "The real question: CAN WE GET TO 15?
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:56:23Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "i like distinct events that these 2 headers are conveying in a very scoped manner. are other events in lifecycle clearly defined. for example some call alfa, beta, some call eap, some call ga, some would say something else.
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:58:26Z"}, {"author": "Evert Pot", "text": "We are using it (Deprecation) successfully
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:58:42Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "Thanks @Evert Pot !
", "time": "2023-03-27T04:59:02Z"}, {"author": "Evert Pot", "text": "(if it's helpful to share our use-case, happy to!)
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:01:09Z"}, {"author": "Roberto Polli", "text": "Seems a recurring discussion :)
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:01:50Z"}, {"author": "Mark Nottingham", "text": "Are there generic tools that consume it?
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:03:10Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "@Evert Pot What is the reaction from OAuth OIDC working groups? Do they not want to add these there?
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:09:12Z"}, {"author": "Roberto Polli", "text": "@evert I think that your work is interesting. I am curious about whether there are some security caveats when using this I-D
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:12:58Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "I think this should be pushed there since endpoints are defined there just to keep things in sync.
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:13:56Z"}, {"author": "Julian Reschke", "text": "/me shows hand
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:16:04Z"}, {"author": "Roberto Polli", "text": "Sorry, I have to take kids to school now :) Thank you and see you on list. Bye:)
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:18:03Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "@roberto Thanks for your contributions.
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:18:27Z"}, {"author": "Erik Wilde", "text": "by @roberto!
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:18:31Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "@rich I am def interested in reviewing this
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:18:40Z"}, {"author": "Hans-J\u00f6rg Happel", "text": "@Evert: I had discussions in the past w OAuth people about OAuth client setup/management. This IS considered a valid topic in there imho
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:22:40Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "@Hans-J\u00f6rg I think the interesting question is whether there are a set of semantics that can be captured that are more broad than OAuth.
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:24:28Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "Yes
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:27:17Z"}, {"author": "Evert Pot", "text": "yes
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:27:20Z"}, {"author": "Erik Wilde", "text": "yes
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:27:21Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "Unsure
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:27:26Z"}, {"author": "Mark Nottingham", "text": "I note that the transcription tool doesn't seem to know about hums.
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:28:15Z"}, {"author": "Erik Wilde", "text": "morning! ;-)
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:28:22Z"}, {"author": "Hans-J\u00f6rg Happel", "text": "@Darrel: (Minor) there should be Fullscreen/presentation mode in Acrobat viewer
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:30:32Z"}, {"author": "Hans-J\u00f6rg Happel", "text": "@Darrel (to prior comment): I agree, just wanted to point out there are/might be OAuth people interested in this
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:32:02Z"}, {"author": "Mark Thomas", "text": "What was the question? Couldn't hear it remotely.
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:39:28Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "I'm slightly terrified of the ability to change individual bytes in resources via HTTP requests.
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:41:12Z"}, {"author": "Hans-J\u00f6rg Happel", "text": "@Mark: if you refer to my off question, I just asked for clarification which of the hesders in the example determined the \"append\"
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:41:14Z"}, {"author": "Hans-J\u00f6rg Happel", "text": "(sorry for just shouting in the room...)
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:41:35Z"}, {"author": "Mark Thomas", "text": "@Hans-J\u00f6rg Happel I was. Tx.
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:41:37Z"}, {"author": "Mark Nottingham", "text": "@Darrel: I mean, that's just PATCH
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:41:43Z"}, {"author": "Evert Pot", "text": "I was building WebDAV servers before and we also really needed this. I wrote this in 2012 to try and solve the same thing: https://sabre.io/dav/http-patch/
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:42:05Z"}, {"author": "Julian Reschke", "text": "+1 to all of this so far
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:43:18Z"}, {"author": "Hans-J\u00f6rg Happel", "text": "I wonder if infinite-length patches (which I understood are in scope?) are something HTTP servers would be happy to implement...
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:43:20Z"}, {"author": "Hans-J\u00f6rg Happel", "text": "I am not an expert on those meta topics: but isn't this rather work for the HTTP WG as opposed to HTTP API? (even though much of it makes PATCH usage APIish)
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:46:29Z"}, {"author": "Ted Hardie", "text": "This reminds me of just how plainly this got written into RFC 5789: PATCH is neither safe nor idempotent as defined by [RFC2616], Section
\n 9.1.
There is https://greenbytes.de/tech/webdav/rfc8673.html
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:47:42Z"}, {"author": "Mark Nottingham", "text": "https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc8673/
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:47:47Z"}, {"author": "Kenji Baheux", "text": "Naive question: how does the client knows how far an abruptly interrupted upload went? (re: use case of resuming an upload). Does this require a round trip to check with the server what it got?
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:50:36Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "Locking the queue as we only have 6 mins to go.
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:54:12Z"}, {"author": "Evert Pot", "text": "How well is Expect supported with unknown tokens? Always thought that could be used more
", "time": "2023-03-27T05:57:06Z"}, {"author": "Ian Williams", "text": "Kenji Baheux said:
\n\n\nNaive question: how does the client knows how far an abruptly interrupted upload went? (re: use case of resuming an upload). Does this require a round trip to check with the server what it got?
\n
Could see this being a header in like a HEAD response or something
\"byte-shedding\"
", "time": "2023-03-27T06:01:13Z"}, {"author": "Evert Pot", "text": "i want to know more about the multipart hate
", "time": "2023-03-27T06:01:38Z"}, {"author": "Julian Reschke", "text": "multipard considered harmful
", "time": "2023-03-27T06:01:47Z"}, {"author": "Sanjay Dalal", "text": "Thank you all!
", "time": "2023-03-27T06:02:07Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "thank you all! Thanks Rich and Darrel
", "time": "2023-03-27T06:02:23Z"}, {"author": "Erik Wilde", "text": "thanks a lot everybody! bye!
", "time": "2023-03-27T06:02:24Z"}, {"author": "Francesca Palombini", "text": "enjoy the cookies
", "time": "2023-03-27T06:02:30Z"}, {"author": "Darrel Miller", "text": "Thank you! Enjoy the rest of your day.
", "time": "2023-03-27T06:02:54Z"}]