[{"author": "Nigel Hickson", "text": "<p>Good morning</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:02:42Z"}, {"author": "Nigel Hickson", "text": "<p>q</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:02:50Z"}, {"author": "Mirja K\u00fchlewind", "text": "<p>morning</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:03:00Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "<p>Pronounceability</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:05:43Z"}, {"author": "Chris Box", "text": "<p>I appreciated the M-TEN workshop report - very readable.</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:05:56Z"}, {"author": "Mirja K\u00fchlewind", "text": "<p>thx</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:07:05Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "<p>What does \"Hybrid Access\" mean in this context?</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:19:02Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "<p>(Just not a term I've heard.)</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:19:11Z"}, {"author": "Mirja K\u00fchlewind", "text": "<p>wired and wireless</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:19:26Z"}, {"author": "Mirja K\u00fchlewind", "text": "<p>usually fixed line and mobile</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:19:35Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "<p>ack. Thx.</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:19:42Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p>love that as a problem statement in an IAB meeting: \"light is too slow\"</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:32:59Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "<p>Come on, come on, I can't wait all constant.</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:33:20Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p>there's a really interesting insight here -- we're doing a lot of work stackwide (protocols as well as deployment, edge compute etc) to reduce latency to enable human-to-human communication, but lots of applications don't need that at all.</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:35:56Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "<p>I expect the cost is still less in most cases to do local 3D printing instead of shipping around things, but I don't see the costs of moving around raw materials accounted for, and I think there might be other societal costs in doing that.</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:36:31Z"}, {"author": "Pete Resnick", "text": "<p>Is that \"100x better\" taking that into account?</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:37:17Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p>there's a rule in diffuse cost accounting that you can get whatever positive or negative balance you want by choosing what you consider external</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:37:17Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p>but yes</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:37:19Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p>good point</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:37:22Z"}, {"author": "Ruediger Geib", "text": "<p>Cost of energy in Germany is quite high. That's core argument, I'd guess.</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:38:20Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p><em>(clap clap clap clap)</em></p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:38:20Z"}, {"author": "Dhruv Dhody", "text": "<p><span aria-label=\"clap\" class=\"emoji emoji-1f44f\" role=\"img\" title=\"clap\">:clap:</span></p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:38:34Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p>i suspect we're also moving into a decade or two of electricity cost being much more variable than it has been over the past forty years (at least in Europe, but denuclearization, LPG containerization, deployment of renewables in the North American interior, etc make this more global)</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:39:50Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p>so it might be that \"cost of shipping things around\" gets lower than the amortized savings of shipping machines to the far north</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:40:22Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p>and if we ever manage to properly tax carbon, that's amplified</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:40:51Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p>not holding my breath though</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:40:57Z"}, {"author": "Christian Huitema", "text": "<p>I kind of wonder what would happen if energy just became more expensive...</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:52:58Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "<p>If energy became more expensive, people would start drilling for the more-expensive dead dinos and then it'd get cheaper again, I fear.</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:53:58Z"}, {"author": "Christian Huitema", "text": "<p>... or the opposite. I personally pay very little for electricity, since all I use comes from the panels on the roof</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:54:05Z"}, {"author": "Christian Huitema", "text": "<p>We could see a generalization of that, and clean energy becoming almost free.</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:54:53Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p>I think the dynamic is going to be driven more by the standard deviation of energy cost in space and time, rather than a change in the mean...</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:55:36Z"}, {"author": "Christian Huitema", "text": "<p>@Rich that has been studied widely. Known result is that compression is always good.</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:56:05Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p>(also, volunteering in public to help however I can in getting an effective venue/program/whatever for taking this discussion further in the IETF)</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:56:50Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "<p>Once again thinking that the IAB needs an economics program.</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:56:59Z"}, {"author": "Mirja K\u00fchlewind", "text": "<p>now you are thinking really broad here...</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:57:23Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p>(is it an electric truck? was the power generated with pumped hydro? is the pumped hydro laundering brown coal?)</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:57:55Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Sullivan", "text": "<p>I tried briefly to gin up some enthusiasm for an IAB economics program when I was on the IAB, but then IANA ate my soul and I decided to stop wanting to do harder things!</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:58:15Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p>figuring out the optimization problems here is inherently economic</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T06:59:36Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p>and actually the economics of electricity and carbon are the most salient driver for economic tradeoffs in internet backbone infra (if only in the second order) for the next few decades</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T07:01:10Z"}, {"author": "Martin Thomson", "text": "<p>economic incentives seem fairly crucial here as long as we have a system built on externalities</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T07:01:29Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "<p>so yeah, an IAB economics program, as long as we call it environmental. :)</p>", "time": "2023-03-30T07:01:36Z"}]