It's the last session of the week, so ...
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:02:10Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "shut it, Levine!
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:03:32Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": ":heart:
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:03:47Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "some of us are cranky because all of these meetings are in the middle of the night.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:04:11Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "only 00:30 tonight, Deb!
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:04:35Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "so early!
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:04:45Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "luxury!
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:04:51Z"}, {"author": "Rich Salz", "text": "I think it's cute that some people (cough deb cough) are claiming late nights as the reason for bringing cranky.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:05:53Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "possibly a completely fair point
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:06:19Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "good point, rich, it's actually just really really early mornings
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:06:33Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "I like early mornings, which makes late night to be super hard
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:06:59Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "can i bring up how i dislike \"post-quantum\"?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:11:14Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "i've taken to referring to things that are not quantum safe as pre-post-quantum
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:11:32Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "you can. but it has been done.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:11:32Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "PPQ?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:11:43Z"}, {"author": "Rich Salz", "text": "pq-preppers? (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doomsday_Preppers)
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:12:15Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "CRPQ-safe?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:12:39Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "CRQC-safe?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:12:59Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "oh wait, really?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:13:14Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "it seems like \"hybrid\" is a fine shorthand, which can be expanded into PQ+T / PQ+PQ when not clear from context
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:13:46Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "exactly
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:13:57Z"}, {"author": "Orie Steele", "text": "https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-driscoll-pqt-hybrid-terminology/
\n... I hear \"trad\" is short for traditional these days... I can only imagine how much flame that would cause.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:16:04Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "\"pocket\"
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:16:48Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "Just call it 'hybrid'
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:17:11Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "We can't^H^H^H^H^H shouldn't treat the outside world like it doesn't exist. Everyone calls a \"post-quantum algorithm\" that, so we shouldn't invent a new term for that.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:17:47Z"}, {"author": "Florence D", "text": "Picking up on Guilin's question from earlier - I'll send a summary of the mailing list discussions on naming algorithm types round the week after next when I'm back from holiday. So if you want to be included in that summary please pitch in before that.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:21:37Z"}, {"author": "Massimiliano Pala", "text": "@Tim: I am quite interested in the document and I would definitely like to continue providing contributions. I think it is a very important document.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:22:15Z"}, {"author": "Roman Danyliw", "text": "text book reference = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/pqc/eGYUU--uwPT63OCnXZjhHNd2FGI/
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:23:31Z"}, {"author": "Florence D", "text": "@Tim - I'm also keen to contribute
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:24:11Z"}, {"author": "Florence D", "text": "Is it true that there is no PQC work necessary for QUIC? I know the security is based on TLS 1.3 but are there fragmentation implications of increasing key/signature sizes?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:31:13Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "Not fragmentation but yes, anti-amplification
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:31:45Z"}, {"author": "Behcet Sarikaya", "text": "I think IEEE analogy is the study group or SG
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:33:23Z"}, {"author": "Behcet Sarikaya", "text": "So AD is saying that pquip is like IEEE SG
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:33:53Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "PS/K
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:34:53Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "PS/K Hybrid
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:35:02Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "(and yes, I know that isn't the right letters)
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:35:18Z"}, {"author": "Massimiliano Pala", "text": "I am interested too.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:35:59Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "don't most of the affected protocols already have PSK stuff?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:36:07Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "a lot of them do.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:37:33Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "The question is whether people realize they are there.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:37:47Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "We've been pushing for this for a while now.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:38:04Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "it isn't a panacea, but it is an option
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:38:33Z"}, {"author": "Roman Danyliw", "text": "We will not do cryptographic algorithm development or verification work in this WG
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:38:44Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "@Deb Cooley what key do you think would be best to use for these protocols?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:38:45Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "Will USG be publishing one?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:38:59Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "key, like preshared key?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:39:04Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "yes.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:39:07Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "like all zeros?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:39:11Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "12345678
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:39:19Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "kidding
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:39:23Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "seems too short
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:39:27Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "double it
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:39:33Z"}, {"author": "Valery Smyslov", "text": "The question is how PSK is used. In IKEv2 PSK is not used for session keys generation. That's why RFC 8784 was written, that allows to mix PSK into session keys.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:39:45Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "funny, that's the code to my luggage!
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:39:49Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "it could be a use for a decent pbkdf
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:40:25Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "generation, distribution, management of a psk is an issue.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:40:51Z"}, {"author": "Orie Steele", "text": "a popular account on the \"nostr / bitcoin / social media thing\" is the all zeros private key... it posts some hilarious stuff.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:40:57Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "i'll grant you that.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:40:59Z"}, {"author": "Eric Rescorla", "text": "Isn't that also the code to the nuclear weapon PALs?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:42:02Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "The question is whether it is easier to add in a PSK or to deploy some hybrid scheme?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:42:36Z"}, {"author": "Mike Ounsworth", "text": "To record Scott Fluhrer's suggestion:
\nThis markdown doc should have a section for protocols that probably do need PQC work, but no drafts have been written yet. #snitchList
@Deb: I think it depends.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:44:15Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "certainly better from a bandwidth point of view?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:44:42Z"}, {"author": "Valery Smyslov", "text": "Yes
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:45:04Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "not better from a generate/distribute point of view
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:45:26Z"}, {"author": "Valery Smyslov", "text": "Sure
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:45:35Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "also, it is actually PQ secure, unlike a hybrid scheme.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:45:50Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "... assuming the distribution is PQ secure
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:46:05Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "oh for sure.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:46:17Z"}, {"author": "Florence D", "text": "Do you mean if the PQ component in a PQ/T hybrid turns out to be broken Deb?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:46:45Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "yes
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:46:52Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "actually, a document describing general considerations for how you do the PSK approach could be a good product for this group
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:46:54Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "like, how long does the PSK need to be
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:47:00Z"}, {"author": "Florence D", "text": "Richard Barnes said:
\n\n\n... assuming the distribution is PQ secure
\n
Pigeon post?
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:47:05Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "semaphore
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:47:32Z"}, {"author": "Orie Steele", "text": "We're also hoping to validate test vectors for post quantum signatures for JOSE / COSE
\nThe current examples are written by me and possibly not correct.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:47:39Z"}, {"author": "Richard Barnes", "text": "@Florence dunno, quantum LIDAR is a thing! https://www.nature.com/articles/s41534-022-00662-9
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:47:48Z"}, {"author": "Massimiliano Pala", "text": "I like the comment from Paul \"wedge\" PQC in protocols idea - usually that is my experience, especially going lower and lower in the stack.
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:48:03Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "i think @Paul Hoffman is saying \"use 'I' statements\"
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:51:19Z"}, {"author": "Massimiliano Pala", "text": "I think Paul is more of a lawyer than he thinks... :)
", "time": "2023-03-31T03:54:06Z"}, {"author": "Yoav Nir", "text": "More than he claims
", "time": "2023-03-31T04:00:11Z"}, {"author": "Orie Steele", "text": "Thank you to the note takers!
", "time": "2023-03-31T04:07:28Z"}, {"author": "Massimiliano Pala", "text": "Thank you! Great First Meeting!
", "time": "2023-03-31T04:07:58Z"}, {"author": "Benson Muite", "text": "Welcome.
", "time": "2023-03-31T04:08:12Z"}, {"author": "Benson Muite", "text": "Notes need a bit of polishing
", "time": "2023-03-31T04:08:18Z"}, {"author": "Deb Cooley", "text": "sorry, I didn't remember your name!
", "time": "2023-03-31T04:08:30Z"}]