[{"author": "Jean Queralt", "text": "

Yes.

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:02:33Z"}, {"author": "Heather Flanagan", "text": "

Yes

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:02:35Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

Yes, no problem

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:02:37Z"}, {"author": "Susan Hares", "text": "

During what time period was the ethnography study done?

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:16:13Z"}, {"author": "Niels ten Oever", "text": "

FYI: https://corinnecath.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/CathCorinne-Thesis-DphilInformationCommunicationSocialSciences.pdf

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:19:22Z"}, {"author": "Niels ten Oever", "text": "

@Susan - feel free to add yourself to the queue, or I can channel your question when Corinne is done presenting

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:20:08Z"}, {"author": "Susan Hares", "text": "

Why not use the Hum tool?

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:21:10Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

rg chairs: please set up the hum for remote

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:21:10Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

(I think I'm making Corinne's point here.)

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:21:24Z"}, {"author": "Mallory Knodel", "text": "

The hum is a bygone artefact now we have polling

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:24:08Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

polling is worse

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:24:28Z"}, {"author": "avri doria", "text": "

Never understood why people bothered to hum. Avoided doing it most of my years.

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:24:36Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

affiliation does matter but that doesn't imply hums are useless though

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:24:55Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "

I find hums are useful for identifying when an issue is not contentious.

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:25:40Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

that but also when some few who hum \"against\" are willing to say why

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:26:07Z"}, {"author": "avri doria", "text": "

Though humming has been shown to be a stress reliever in other studies.

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:26:12Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "

sometimes everyone in the room is concerned that someone else is concerned about some issue, then the hum reveals that there is actual consensus around the right way forward (i.e. silence on an option everyone is considering)

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:27:01Z"}, {"author": "Ruediger Geib", "text": "

Hums might not be optimal. Is there any better approach? Humming is certainly better than showing hands.

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:27:08Z"}, {"author": "Stephen Farrell", "text": "

hums also leave (or left;-() greater scope for indeterminate outcomes

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:28:11Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

I expect some of the hum's power as a contention-remover has been replaced in the last thirty years with an increase in open implementation

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:28:32Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "

@Ruediger Geib do you mean \"show of hands\" the meetecho tool? or literal show of hands in the room?

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:28:43Z"}, {"author": "Ruediger Geib", "text": "

Thanbks, I meant show of hands in the room.

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:29:09Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "

the hum has also gone away as we've moved to hybrid meetings, where you can't effectively hum

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:29:11Z"}, {"author": "Ruediger Geib", "text": "

True

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:29:23Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "

and the meetecho \"show of hands\" is intended to offer something like that

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:29:31Z"}, {"author": "Reese Enghardt", "text": "

I did see one WG do a hum in the room and then a remote \"show of hands\" so apparently now we can split

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:29:40Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "

@Reese Enghardt that's interesting -- where did that happen?

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:30:20Z"}, {"author": "Reese Enghardt", "text": "

TSVWG on Tuesday

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:30:27Z"}, {"author": "Jean Queralt", "text": "

First Hum then Consensus.
\nWatch it happen.

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:30:49Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

(sub-research area: how remote tooling works in the feedback loop of our processes)

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:30:57Z"}, {"author": "Ruediger Geib", "text": "

But again - if hum isn't the best, please suggest something better. It's fair to state, humming is sub-optimal. Please be constructive and suggest a better, workable solution for the purpose served by humming.

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:34:12Z"}, {"author": "Jean Queralt", "text": "

The problem is not so much that NGOs can't be here, rather that NGOs do not attract enough technologists.

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:34:20Z"}, {"author": "Karen O'Donoghue", "text": "

I do think the culture of the IETF IS changing. This takes time. And while it isn't perfect, I do think the efforts of the leadership and new participants are working to change that culture. Help be a part of the change.

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:34:29Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "

@Alistair Woodman : your comment sounds very familiar - it's analogous to \"change the privacy policy to match what we're actually doing, rather than changing the technology to match what we've told people we're doing\"

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:34:40Z"}, {"author": "Jean Queralt", "text": "

Back in the 90s, with the boom of computing magazines... was it content creators learning about technology or technologists learning how to write?

\n

Find proper experts and give them the proper incentive and you'll bring more technologists to the NGO sector.

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:36:14Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

(I'll take my questions for Corinne to email / follow up in person)

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:37:00Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

(And many, many thanks for the presentation!)

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:37:15Z"}, {"author": "Reese Enghardt", "text": "

Indeed, fascinating work, I'll try and read the thesis

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:37:32Z"}, {"author": "John Klensin", "text": "

@Karen: agreed. But, at the same time, some the changes appear to me to be widening the gulf between what we say we do and what actually happens. E.g., even this week, I've seen exercises that are supposedly hums that are indistinguishable for classical voting, including counting people on both sides and reporting the majority view as consensus.

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:38:49Z"}, {"author": "Niels ten Oever", "text": "

And please take questions, discussions amd comments to the list as well! Especially since we might be able to get new research questions from it for the RG

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:39:13Z"}, {"author": "Reese Enghardt", "text": "

I am also curious about the masculinity aspect of it, with regards to yesterday's plenary slide (8.5% women and ~2% transgender and nonbinary participants IIRC, which is worse than our industry average)

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:39:57Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "

@Jean Queralt i think it's also important to ensure that interested people in existing NGOs can gain the technical expertise and influence. Technical training produces certain kinds of mindsets (i know because my mind has been shaped by it too), and people trained to work in civil society, or for specific social goals have different mindsets. the Internet is infrastructure too important to leave up to people from a particular mindset/training/background.

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:40:03Z"}, {"author": "Reese Enghardt", "text": "

(nothing that some of these may double count people, as the gender field is a multi-select)

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:41:21Z"}, {"author": "Reese Enghardt", "text": "

*noting

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:41:29Z"}, {"author": "Daniel Gillmor", "text": "

@Reese Enghardt the free software community, another ostensibly \"open\" social and collaborative space, has similarly dismal gender disparities

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:42:57Z"}, {"author": "Reese Enghardt", "text": "

True, that's a good point

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:43:19Z"}, {"author": "Jean Queralt", "text": "

@Daniel: Agree.
\nYou (should) still bring an expert to a thematic meeting/WG no matter how much you train your team.
\nA balance is to be found yet we should always strive to not water-down the inherent nature of technology.
\nIf something is technically difficult, there's a reason for it and wanting to participate implies you do the work to learn.

\n

(Note: I represent an NGO and my background is technical so I experience the issue regularly)

", "time": "2023-03-30T04:43:48Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

clap clap clap clap

", "time": "2023-03-30T05:02:38Z"}, {"author": "Hern\u00e2ni Marques", "text": "

Interesting group, thanks!

", "time": "2023-03-30T05:06:53Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Fregly", "text": "

25 minutes left on the agenda and 12 minutes left in the session

", "time": "2023-03-30T05:19:16Z"}, {"author": "Andrew Fregly", "text": "

25 minutes left on the agenda and 11 minutes left in the session

", "time": "2023-03-30T05:19:30Z"}, {"author": "Dan Harkins", "text": "

Lots of things have \"dismal gender disparities\"... people in nursing, the incarcerated, sanitary workers, general contractors, etc.

", "time": "2023-03-30T05:20:38Z"}, {"author": "Brian Trammell", "text": "

clap clap clap

", "time": "2023-03-30T05:28:23Z"}, {"author": "Niels ten Oever", "text": "

Thanks so much Effy

", "time": "2023-03-30T05:29:14Z"}, {"author": "Niels ten Oever", "text": "

Very sorry we did not have more time

", "time": "2023-03-30T05:29:20Z"}]