Post-Quantum Use In Protocols (pquip) WG
https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/pquip/about

IETF 116, Yokohama
2023-03-31, 1200-1330 local time
Sofia Celi and Paul Hoffman, co-chairs

Scribes: Benson Muite, Yoshiro Yoneya

Intro and Note Well - 5 min

Hybrid terminology document - 10 min
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-driscoll-pqt-hybrid-terminology/

• PQ/T
• Aron: Support adoption, useful
• Mike Ounsworth: Disambiguate different types of hybrids
• F: Other suggestions welcome
• Guilin Wang: Summary of discussion result would be helpful
• F: List or draft?
• Guilin Wang: Both
• F: See last 3 slides. Most of discussion on language to use for
  algorithms. PQ and traditional algorithm disucssions. Can summarize
  on list later.
• Guilin Wang: Would be appreciated
• Rowan May: PQ/T unpronouncable. "Packet" "Picket" may be
  pronouncable
• SC: Thanks
• PH: Want to adopt. But discussion can continue.

PQC for Engineers document - 10 min
https://github.com/paulehoffman/post-quantum-for-engineers

• SC: Want feedback for this document. Want someone to take ownership
  of this document. Not ready for adoption.
• Tim Hollebeck: Happy to take ownership. Wants feedback. As an expert
  in the field, wants input from non-experts.
• PH: Happy for TH to take this.
• SC: See GitHub repo.
• PH: See mailing list from co-authors of 9340, 9340 is good
• Guilin Wang: Presentations/tutorials on PQ algorithms would be
  helpful
• PH: More discussion on list
• GW: Meeting discussions also useful for community, why important
• PH: Please bring to list, not sure
• Rodney Van Meter: Mailing list discussion on how to get book
• PH: Discussion between groups on Quantum internet and Quantum crypto

Grand list of WGs and protocols looking at PQC algorithms - 45 minutes
https://github.com/ietf-wg-pquip/state-of-protocols-and-pqc

• SC: Please send PR or comments to mailing list. Not expected to be
  adopted. Readme file. Easy to update.
• PH: Opinionated list. Contributions welcome, eg. move material to
  different sections, add sections
• SC: What is missing?
• Huhman (Nokia): What to do with other protocols, eg. from IEEE?
• PH: YEs, IP?
• Roman Danilow: Free to discuss, but will not do protocol work
• PH: IEEE?
• RD: Can list other protocols
• SC: Signal, Wire would be good to list
• Huhman: 802.1ae low latency high throughput, but layer 2. Some
  movement in industry, and wants working group to ddress this
• RD: Can discuss broad scope, candidate solutions. But protocol work
  and drafts needs to happen elsewhere
• PH: If IEEE made a pdf, can that be discussed?
• RD: Ok
• Russ Housely (IEEE liason): No issue with 802.1ae, but raise flag
• PH: Table can be useful for also listing groups working on PQ
  algorithms
• RD: After a few meetings, may
• Deb : Many drafts on key exchange for short term protection
• SC: What specifically listing? Not really considered symmetric
  crypto. Pre share key, if generated correctly ok. Though very
• Deb: IPsec has an RFC, with an add in for PQ. Can it go into table?
• PH: Yes, can go into table. Interested in preshared keys? Rus to
  help with this
• PH: Useful to list to help with finding key sizes
• ??: LAKE should have a section. Orphan protocols
• PH: Please add LAKE, There is a section for orpahn
• Armando Faz Hernandez: Does the wg is willing to accept new variants
  of PQ algorithms?
• SC: List specific documents. CFRG to deal with
• AFH: To general working group, not tihs document
• PH: Work to go to SecDispatch or elsewhere, once a draft/document
  can be listed
• Mike Ounsworth: List is useful to check if something is solved
• PH: Does not need to be novel. Multistakeholder model in IETF
  different from others (e.g. IEEE/NIST). If what others are doing can
  be helpful good to list it here in a directory of ideas.
• Andrew Fregly: A review of assumptions and constraints would be
  helpful. Validity? Feedback.
• PH: Are you willing to help? Documents on protocol changes needed
• AF: Will check with others to lead on this.
• PH: Useful to have on list. Especially for IETF protocols. For
  example changes needed to get TLS to work in PQ setting.
• AF:
• PH: Anything more?
• John Gray: Implementations and interop testing. Hackathons useful
  for this, and want more activity in this area. Libquantum safe has
  been used. Please join in this in future hackathons.
• SC: Add GitHub repo as item on list
• PH: Can do interim meetings, also hackathon

All other WG business - remainder

• PH: Patents and PQ crypto
• Rich Salz: You are not talking about specific patents
• PH: Not legal advice, not telling anything. Stop if needed. NIST
  choose CRYSTALS-KYBER. 2 related patent portolios. NIST has entered
  agreements. Not sure how this applies to everyone. See IETF rules on
  IPR disclosure. Do a search on KYBER and other PQC algorithms.
  Patent laws differ by jurisdiction. Field is complex, though IETF
  has much experience gained over the years. IETF give opinions, do
  not go to mic with "legal advice". Send as much discussion to list
  as possible. Do not go to mic if better to use list. For mic, want
  statments about what this means in general.
• Bob Hinden: IETF working groups can make discussions based on state
  of IPR claims.
• PH: This group does not standardize
• BH:
• PH: This group should be valuable to other groups. Brought it up, as
  it is a general discussion area. Please read BCP 79.
• Qunyh Dang: Will post to list.
• PH: You have PQ at NIST mailing list. What do you think about
  cross-posting?
• QD: Inputs are welcome. Inputs from other streams also welcome, eg.
  other mailing lists, private conversations etc.
• SC: Please also note code of conduct.
• PH: Mailing lists can get heated.

• QD: Be professional.

• PH: People in community may have valuable knowledge they can share
  that is not legal advice. Welcomes and encourages this.

AOB:

• SC: Will send summary to list
• PH: Call on list to make. Tim to take on engineering documents. Add
  further sections to document.
• Deb Cooley: There are some minutes.
• PH: Session closed